Theos-Talk Archives (December 2004 Message tt00183)

Dear Andrew
Yes, I am familiar with Mohammed's story. The "jahilyah" (Pagan Arabs) were 
polytheisits, as were, and I can verify this, the Jews, and certainly 
the Christians (e.g. trinity, etc.) 
C: Mohammed, before his revelations also believed in Abraham, Moses, Jesus and was a practising jahilyah. He was known in the community as the Righteous Man, the Just Man.
Whether he was visited by Gabriel or it was his own Gabriel, he lived in a harsh barren land, where Arabs migrated from site to site, and depended on their tribe to protect them from other tribes. Their world was violent, turmoil and despair. The social structure was the tribe. The religion was tribal - polythiest - Even though he had a relatively comfortable life as a Caravan Manager. He could see that the old values were breaking down and needed to be replaced with a new set of ideas. M's vision was that his followers should forsake the gods of their ancestry and embrace only Allah - the high god of the pantheist, and that loyalty should be to that God alone. A community bound together by an ideal - related in faith and agreement - that anyone could join. This was revolutionary at the time and as you know threatened the ruling classes. 

So I agree with you when you say "he was a genius for drawing pure 
tawhid out of the morass that Judaism and Christianity had 
created." Although I think that is a bit harsh, as Christianity was not pantheistic, in terms of hundreds of gods, but believed in a Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (although I have never understood what this meant). This again was a bastardisation of what Jesus taught and was used by the Christian clerics as a means of control and power over the masses. 

The Quran came to Mohammed in the form of poetry, and all poets were honoured in their community at that time. Mystical experiences were accepted as the norm then, and as Allah had protected him in the Cave, the followers believed he was the messenger of Allah.

St. Augustine,, Mircea Eliade and Mohammed were mystical. I have no trouble accepting that Mohammed's revelations were of a mystical nature.

What I do have trouble with is that his revelations seemed to co-incide with his politics.
He knew that the threat of Kerash had to be challenged by armed conflict. To defend their beliefs in battle. At this time he had a revelation JI-HAD. A revelation justifying his followers to fight. To struggle for the sake of God whether that be financial or violent. At that time the Muslims in Medina were fighting for survival - exiled, unemployed, poor date farmers and as all land was spoken for JIHAD provided them with the moral justification to fight for the right (in fact it was an obligation) to survive. To engage in defensive warfare. To defend by attacking. And this Mohammed did at the Battle of Bada. After 20 years of battles, he and his followers knew they had to go to Mecca to uproot the old religion by destroying the 365 idols in the BADR. This they did, but unlike the jahilyah, he ordered his followers to show mercy, to show forgiveness, "but forgiveness is better" unlike the jahilyah who would slaughter all those who survived the battle. In this way, Islam
grew, with new converts and spread from North Africa to India. In 1400 years Islam grew to 1.5 billion followers.

I agree with you that the crusades are not over yet. When people like BIN LADEN, HUSSEIN,HOMENI, distort the message even further, by using JIHAD to inflict retribution on the innocent for their personal power struggles. They quote from the Quran, but forget to quote, the whole message of Mohammed. Do not turn the other cheek, you have a right to fight to defend your faith, but always remember FORGIVENESS IS BETTER. "HE WHO SHALL KILL A HUMAN BEING, SHALL BE IF HE KILLETH ALL OF MANKIND"

These new arabs have again distorted his message which was mean to UNIFY. Mohammed was not concerned with the rest of the world, they could have their own religions. JIHAD has been misinterpreted and is basically the same as the Christians practiced, 'DEFENDERS OF THE FAITH" and killed and slaughtered millions in divine righteousness. If JIHAD is a universal truth, then sadly it applies to all people who practice religion, so you can't blame the Americans for defending their faith when they are doing the same things that the Arabs are doing. There is no moral justification for the trouble in Irak, but then is there a justification to help those Arabs who were being slaughtered daily by Hussein, one of them? Do we just stand by and let these despots rule the world through evil? Do we turn away and say, "not my business, let them kill each other"? Are we there just to exploit their oil? What will happen when the oil is no longer a necessity in the west.
My ex spent 7 years in the Middle East, I know of the hypocricy and the goodness within the followers.
Cass


"Andrew W. Smith" <aupanishad@msn.com> wrote:


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote:
> But didnt Mohammed mean "there is no god (other gods) but God" 
Didn't his religion change the ruling tribes of Koresh (forgive 
spelling) from pantheism to monotheism. Nothingness as referred to, 
could mean NO THING NESS
> 
> Andrew Smith wrote:
> One thing has always bothered me, and that is the definitions and 
names and other restrictions we place upon the ultimate deity we can 
imagine only. HPB (of Theosophy fame) once talked about this in the 
Introduction to "Isis Unveiled." The Hindus talk about "God" 
as "Neti, neti" (nothing, nothing), and many mystics of all kinds 
think it is more reverent to speak little or none about the deity 
rather than try to hold Him in a religious "bottle" like a Genii. 
Zen "nothingness" (shunyata) also portrays this concept in their own 
version of Buddhism. I am in agreement with this movement, no matter 
how much I have said in the past (and no matter how bloody Islam's 
past, present, or future---those understand nothing of Allah's love 
for mankind). And now I feel that the simple "tawhid" (monotheism) of 
Islam is the best way to know the deity. In other words "There is no 
god but God" (la ilaha il'Allah) is the perfect way to attack this 
conundrum. Regardless of how Muslims act in view of this
> Great Truth, most of it due to the battlefields of the Middle-East 
throughout the centuries as civilization developes, Muhammad was 
truly given a Great Revelation when he found that "There is no god 
but God." 
> 
> Now, from a purely human, even scientific, viewpoint, there may be 
aliens or "gods" out in space, may even be UFOs, or "the Borg" (ah, 
those jokes were atrocious! LOL), but they can never be the deity Who 
is "the Beneficent and the Merciful." Muhammad wrote the Qur'an in 
his day for his people who were completely corrupt, and even killed 
baby daughters because they wanted sons only, but what the message of 
the "Qur'an is, is that we must be in gratitude to the One from Whom 
we sprang, however that was. In other words, as succinctly put in the 
beginning and end of Ian Dallas's book, The Book of Strangers," "La 
ilaha il'Allah."
> 
> 
> "Salaam Alaikum,"
> (Says) Al-Hallaj Kabir Ali
> "La ilaha il'Allah!"
> 
Cass,
I don't mean to mince words. The basis of all this is the "tawhid" 
(Absolute Monotheism) of Allah. The "jahilyah" (Pagan Arabs) were 
polytheisits, as were, and I can verify this, the Jews, and certainly 
the Christians (e.g. trinity, etc.) Even if Muhammad did not have a 
revelation (which I believe he DID),"La ilaha il'Allah" is the perfect answer to all of this 
mess we call religion today. The CruSades (cf. the Marquis de Sade) 
are not over yet---just ask George Bush. As far as the "Nothingness" 
of the divine, you will find in any number of books on mysticism 
where pure faith is to know God as the cavity of the heart where "La 
ilalha il'Allah" is the only thing that can fill it. Read, for 
instance Meister Eckhart, St. Augustine,, Mircea Eliade, etc.






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