Theos-Talk Archives (November 2004 Message tt00032)

Nov 3 2004

Thanks for your response and amplification of ideas.

I would recommend studying what is taught about the 7-Principles of man and
nature.

I think it gives a clue to the question you have.

This how I visualize the subject:

I start with the idea that the entire Universe as a SPIRITUAL ONENESS. 

It is all and everything at their root base.  

>From the Highest Dhyan Chohan, Rishi, Avatar or Buddha to the lowest monad,
atom, molecule, cell, ... -- all are united in the one basic source of
SPIRIT, and it is for ever internal to each. This is important, as it gives
to humans the idea that the closest position each and all have to "GOD"
[SPIRIT] is within themselves. It is sometimes referred to as "my HIGHER
SELF" [or the ATMA].

Now the next question may be: If this is so, then why don't we know this?  

The answer is that we have been taught and educated otherwise. See what
follows as an example -- it is to be seen universally in all sects,
religions, nations civilizations and creeds. 

If we can grasp the idea that this UNITY is as a mass -- a whole, and also,
if viewed as the entire assemblage of many forms, shapes, levels of
experience, etc... those differences resolve back on close examination into
the ORIGINAL and EVER-PRESET ONENESS. So, we are all spiritual brothers and
sisters, sons, daughters, fathers and mothers -- and considering the
eternity of this educational process of reincarnation, we have held those
near and dear relations with many who are in this life unknown, or
unrecognized by us.

To be very brief we could say that the Highest Dhyan Chohan [LORD OF WISDOM]
is inside of us, at the root of our Spiritual Nature. Simultaneously, the
most dense aspect of substance or matter is also present. The eternal bond
between the two is Mind, consciousness and intelligence. We can with our
Mind direct our thoughts to perceive the Unity Of Spirit that resides in the
diversity of forms, objects and conditions. 

In Theosophy we speak of the MONADS, or the milliards of entities, shapes
and forms that fill the entire illimitable UNIVERSE. As the Universe is
immortal and permanent, so the individual MONADS are also undying and ever
reincarnating in forms of matter that they attract around themselves. 

Science recognizes the indestructibility of the atom (although it can be
transformed and altered with sufficient energy), and it also recognizes the
immutability of the many laws of NATURE . [Here I speak of mathematics,
chemistry, physics, astronomy, chronology, measurement, cycles, biology,
engineering, architecture, geology, anthropology, paleontology, and every
department of Nature that can be observed, measured and compared to others
in terms of size, time, age and motion.]  

So (1) the eternity of the atom, and (2) the changeless laws of action and
reaction and sympathy in Nature, are the basis for (3) SPIRIT, as it
continually works in and through the many different beings that are composed
of atoms, molecules, cells, etc., etc. It operates through the power of the
(4) Mind and (5) Will.  

Taken all together, this is the vast current made up of many smaller
currents of (6) Life. The objective of this continual and vast work is for
every one of the many "Monads" to attain what may be called (7) "Universal
Self-Consciousness." In that condition the individual monad is incapable of
doing any wrong, or, sinful vicious act. It gladly acts in sympathy with
Nature and treats all beings as its so-many bothers.

We first have to agree that we all live in a Universe that is entirely
regulated by laws. There are no exceptions, and no "Devil" ever existed.
[The "devil" is another creation of priestcraft.] 

However we observe: 

Religions, all over the world, have altered the concept of UNIVERSAL SPIRIT
into that of "a PERSONAL GOD." 

Further, to account for the obvious diversity and the relentlessly immutable
rules of Nature they have made their "God" a "CREATOR."  

Observing that humanity consists of independent and self-willed beings with
minds and desires of their own, they saw an opportunity in the curious
condition of living under which all humans exist. This average condition of
life, is seen to be a series of variables within the limits and parameters
of the sensations we name: happiness, pleasure, pain, torture, death
tyranny and complacency. 

In order to explain this and keep humanity docilely subject to their will,
and control, they have devised the concept that "sin" is a breaking of
Nature's laws.  

Further, they (priestcraft) devised an opponent of "God." -- a "DEVIL."
Now, if "God" created everything just and god and progressive, then why
create a "devil?" [Priestcraft says because "man" has to be tested and his
virtue under all circumstances proved." Is universal virtue (law) ever in
doubt?]

In mankind, the concept of brotherhood and virtue are the spiritual base.  

When, through selfishness, virtue is altered by any individual to vice, they
claim that their special relation to "GOD" permits them (usually for
payment) to act as intercessors and secure, if "God wills," a remission for
the sin committed. At this point little if any attention is paid to
redressing the suffering and pain inflicted on the victims. This obviously,
is, on reflection, unfair and a further breaking of Nature's Laws.

Our differences in shape, distance, language, heredity, and in knowledge are
only apparent, if we assume that those limits are definite and unchangeable.


Most of us make those assumptions.

In order to explain my thinking to you I have given this detailed account
and I hope it explains some things.

Best wishes to you, and do not hesitate to ask further if I can be of
assistance.

Dallas

PS

Here is a short essay on the 7 Principles in man (and the Universe) -- I
hope it may also help.

--------------------------
 

Here are some good statements made by Theosophy:

------------------------------------------------

SEVEN-FOLD NATURE AND MAN -- " 7 PRINCIPLES"


The universe evolves from the unknown, on seven planes, and in
seven ways in all worlds. And this sevenfold differentiation
causes all the worlds of the universe, and the beings thereon, to
have a septenary constitution.

The divisions of the sevenfold universe may be laid down roughly
as: The Absolute, Spirit, Mind, Matter, Will, Akasa or AEther,
and Life. In place of "the Absolute" we can use the word "Space."
For "Space" is that which ever is, and in which all manifestation
must take place.

Our knowledge begins with differentiation, and all manifested
objects, beings, or powers are only differentiations of the Great
Unknown.

The most that can be said of the Absolute" is that IT
periodically differentiates itself, and periodically withdraws
the differentiated into itself. As to "the Absolute," we can do
no more than say IT IS. None of the Great Teachers of the School
ascribe qualities to "the Absolute," although all qualities exist
in It.

The first differentiation -- speaking metaphysically as to
time -- is Spirit, with which appears Matter and Mind. This is a
Unit, and, called the "Monad." [ In manifestation, it is a
triune Unity, consisting of: ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS, or, Spirit -
Wisdom - Mind] The Monad is held to be immortal throughout the
great life-cycle, whether Manvantara or Kalpa. It is the basis
for human Individuality.

The term "Akasa," taken from the Sanskrit, is used in place of
AEther, to properly designate that tenuous state of matter which
is now sometimes called "Ether" by modern science. Akasa is
produced from Matter and Spirit.

Will is the force of Spirit in action. And Life (Jiva) is a
resultant of the action of Akasa, moved by Spirit, upon Matter.

But the Matter here spoken of, is not that which is commonly
known as such. It is the Real Matter which is always invisible,
and has sometimes been called Primordial Matter. In the
Brahmanical system it is called "Mulaprakriti" (or "Root
Matter"). And it is sometimes referred to as "Maha-Buddhi." [In
considering this, one may think of an "atom" as essentially an
eternal, individualized field of electro-magnetic Force.
Physical material is condensed in and around it by attraction.
The formation of worlds, and the reincarnation of human Souls,
may be thought of in similar terms, and follow a similar
pattern.]

The ancient teaching always held, as is now admitted by Science,
that we see or perceive only the phenomena but not the essential
nature, cause or being of Matter.

--------------------------

2
SOUL -- EGO -- MIND


Nearly everyone says he has a soul and a body, and there it ends.
What the soul is, and whether it is the real person or whether it
has any powers of its own, are not inquired into, the preachers
usually confining themselves to its salvation or damnation. And
by thus talking of it as something different from oneself, the
people have acquired an underlying notion that they are not souls
because the soul may be lost by them. From this has come about a
tendency to materialism causing men to pay more attention to the
body than to the soul, the latter being left to the tender
mercies of the priest of the Roman Catholics, and among
dissenters the care of it is most frequently put off to the dying
day. But when the true teaching is known it will be seen that the
care of the soul, which is the Self, is a vital matter requiring
attention every day, and not to be deferred without grievous
injury resulting to the whole man, both soul and body....


THE 7-FOLD CLASSIFICATION

H. P. Blavatsky directly from the Great Lodge of
Initiates...places...the old doctrine [of seven-fold Man] before
western civilization. The classification is:

1. The Body, or Rupa. (physical form, molecules, cells)
2. Vitality, or Prana-Jiva. (Life principle)
3. Astral Body, or Linga-Sarira. (electro-magnetic form, atoms and
energies)
4. Animal Soul, or Kama-Rupa (Lower Manas & desires)
5. Human Soul, or Manas. (logic and ratiocination - (Higher manas)
6. Spiritual Soul, or Buddhi. (discrimination, intuition, wisdom)
7. Spirit, or Atma, (HIGHER SELF overshadows the other 6)

The Sanskrit language has a wider sense than the English terms.
This classification stands to this day for all practical
purposes, but it is capable of modification and extension. For
instance, a later arrangement which places ASTRAL BODY second
instead of third in the category does not substantially alter it.
It at once gives an idea of what man is, very different from the
vague description by the words "body and soul," and also boldly
challenges the materialistic conception that mind is the product
of brain, a portion of the body.

No claim is made that these principles were hitherto unknown, for
they were all understood in various ways not only by the Hindus
but by many Europeans. Yet the compact presentation of the
sevenfold constitution of man in intimate connection with the
septenary constitution of a chain of Globes through which the
being evolves, had not been given out...

Considering these constituents in another manner, we would say
that the lower man is a composite being, but in his real nature
is a unity, or immortal being, comprising a trinity of Spirit,
Discernment, and Mind which requires four lower mortal
instruments or vehicles through which to work in matter and
obtain experience from Nature.

This trinity is that called Atma-Buddhi-Manas in Sanskrit,
difficult terms to render in English. Atma is Spirit, Buddhi is
the highest power of intellection, that which discerns and
judges, and Manas is Mind. This threefold collection is the real
man; and beyond doubt the doctrine is the origin of the
theological one of the trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
The four lower instruments or vehicles are shown in this table:

Real Man is Triune (3) -- :

Atma,	SPIRIT
Buddhi,	WISDOM and DISCRIMINATION
Manas,	MIND, THOGHT, MEMORY, WILL


Lower Vehicles are 4 -- :

* The Passions and Desires,	EMOTIONS, SELFISHNESS
* Life Principle, ENERGY, POWER, LIFE FORCE	
* Astral Body,	MODEL or electro-magnetic base
* Physical Body. ATOMS, MOLECULES, CELLS, etc...


These four lower material constituents are transitory and subject
to disintegration in themselves as well as to separation from
each other. When the hour arrives for their separation to begin,
the combination can no longer be kept up, the physical body dies,
the atoms of which each of the four is composed begin to separate
from each other, and the whole collection being disjointed is no
longer fit for one as an instrument for the real man.


DEATH of the PHYSICAL

This is what is called "death" among us mortals, but it is not
death for the real man because he is deathless, persistent,
immortal. He is therefore called the Triad, or indestructible
trinity, while they are known as the Quaternary or mortal four.

This quaternary or lower man is a product of cosmic or physical
laws and substance. It has been evolved during a lapse of ages,
like any other physical thing, from cosmic substance, and is
therefore subject to physical, physiological, and psychical laws
which govern the race of man as a whole.

Hence its period of possible continuance can be calculated just
as the limit of tensile strain among the metals used in bridge
building can be deduced by the engineer. Any one collection in
the form of man made up of these constituents is therefore
limited in duration by the laws of the evolutionary period in
which it exists. Just now, that is generally seventy to one
hundred years, but its possible duration is longer. Thus there
are in history instances where ordinary persons have lived to be
two hundred years of age; and by a knowledge of the occult laws
of nature the possible limit of duration may be extended nearly
to four hundred years.


THE VISIBLE PHYSICAL MAN IS:

*	Brain, Nerves, Blood, Bones, Lymph, Muscles, Organs of
Sensation and Action, and Skin.


* THE UNSEEN PHYSICAL MAN IS:

* Astral Body, Passions and Desires, Life Principle (called
prana or jiva).


It will be seen that the physical part of our nature is thus
extended to a second department which, though invisible to the
physical eye, is nevertheless material and subject to decay.


REAL AND UNREAL

Because people in general have been in the habit of admitting to
be real only what they can see with the physical eye, they have
at last come to suppose that the unseen is neither real nor
material. But they forgot that even on the earth plane noxious
gases are invisible though real and powerfully material, and that
water may exist in the air held suspended and invisible until
conditions alter and cause its precipitation.

Let us recapitulate before going into details. The Real Man is
the trinity of Atma-Buddhi-Manas, or Spirit and Mind, and he uses
certain agents and instruments to get in touch with nature in
order to know himself.

These instruments and agents are found in the lower Four -- or
the Quaternary -- each principle in which category is of itself
an instrument for the particular experience belonging to its own
field, the body being the lowest, least important, and most
transitory of the whole series.

For when we arrive at the body on the way down from the Higher
Mind, it can be shown that all of its organs are in themselves
senseless and useless when deprived of the man within.

Sight, hearing, touch, taste, and smelling do not pertain to the
body but to the second unseen physical man, the real organs for
the exercise of those powers being in the ASTRAL BODY, and those
in the physical body being but the mechanical outer instruments
for making the coordination between nature and the real organs
inside.
[extracts from Ocean of THEOSOPHY ]
----------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: cassilva48
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 4:40 PM
To: 
Subject: [bn-study] RE: How do the masters relate to these higher
hierarchies

Dear Dallas

Thank you very much for your time and effort regarding my question on how
the masters relate to higher heirarchies. I have a firm belief in the
Mahatmas, which I have based on reason, (my own which is limited I know) -
it is reasonable to assume that in spiritual evolution there are those
further along and those who are not as far along, and that without some
higher forces operating man would have destroyed himself already, through
ignorance. I was trying to delve into the matter of operating
consciousnesses, and your article points out that if I open a channel
(based on reasonable belief and I can be of service) that the Masters are
able to communicate with me at a subliminal level, I was delving the
question how do the Masters communicate or relate to their Masters?  



My question is not skeptical or framed in sarcasm, it is an honest question.


Your words and ideas have been very helpful, and I suppose it doesnt
matter in the long run how the masters relate to higher forms? than
themselves, only that they do. If the answer came to me it would stop this
little nagging thought from entering my mind, which would only allow space
for more questions. It may appear to the outsider that my questions probe
a skepticism in belief, a confirmation that I am studying something
worthwhile, proof, but in reality my questions seek confirmation of an
already held belief. An "oh that's how it works" attitude.
Again, many thanks for your input
Cass