Re: Theos-World Re: endless series of Seers/theos. may be wrong
Sep 17, 2004 02:01 AM
Hi Krishtar and others,
No matter how much we increase our "inner sensitivity" how can we be sure
that what we experience through such means is not an illusion?
With such a possibility, the only real confirmation of theosophical
metaphysical theories can only come about through a combination of both objective
intellectual examination as well as internal subjective experiencing.
Only if theosophy, as originally presented by HPB, is true, will both these
perceptions and understandings be consistent with each other. Therefore, for
each individual seeker, there cannot be any final and irrefutable "proof" of
theosophy solely using the method of inner examination and self discovery.
Since, theosophy professes to be based on "laws" that operate on each level
of universal manifestation through "coadunate but not consubstantial" fields of
consciousness, those laws on each level must be "scientifically" consistent,
based on the same fundamental cause. Therefore, they are subject to
intellectual analysis using our mental powers of logical deduction and induction
directed toward examination of universal reality from both the point of view of their
effects, as well as from their causes -- in accord with fundamental
This, then, requires the knowledge of symbology, and the ability to interpret
such symbology (as explained in the Secret Doctrine, with reference to the
writings of all the ancient Masters of Wisdom) in the form of mental images of
phenomenal reality encompassing all the seven fold levels of being and how they
interrelate with each other -- that one can model and follow their logical
and lawful involution and evolution in the rational mind. And, by so doing,
compare them with the direct experiences of ultimate reality in the intuitive
mind linked directly to Atma (i.e., when one has arrived at that state of
open-mindedness through long practice of the yoga of mindful meditation as taught by
Patanjali). Therefore, there are no easy ways to attain this spiritual
knowledge and wisdom.
When both these objective and subjective "images" coincide, then one can
begin to accept theosophy as being true -- for oneself. Only then, can one have
faith in the Masters and start on the path to Chelaship -- with further direct
guidance by them -- and without concern for the teachings by any self
professed "gurus" who followed after HPB, other than confirmations of whether or not
they knew what they were talking about.
P.S. For help in forming and visualizing these "images" in the rational mind
that is consistent with those grasped intuitively, and also with theosophical
metaphysics along with its fundamental laws of cycles and periodicity, see"
Hint, for the scientific and technical minded; Note that all circles in these
diagrams represent cross sections of spherical fields that, as they involve
fractally, wind up their surfaces from twin positive and negative rays of
primal force that descends spirally (at lower and lower levels of both
energy/frequency) from spirit to matter -- through inner vortical Mobius-like paths that
are both inside and outside simultaneously... With their zero-point centers
everywhere and their circumference nowhere. Understanding this, the rest is up
to you. All this, BTW, occurs before the "big bang." Incidentally, reading
Stephen Hawking's, "The Universe in a Nutshell" might help fill in the
connections between theosophical metaphysics' view from the inside out and physical
science's and cosmology's view from the outside in (or vice versa, depending on
how one looks at it. :-) In any event, as HPB predicted, they are getting
closer and closer to confirming theosophy.
(For those who think correct metaphysical knowledge along with a "synthesis
of science religion and philosophy" is unimportant in arriving at
self-realization and attaining the higher wisdom leading toward Adept -- throw away all
your books and follow your guru -- who might, at least, get you through this life
without harm... Or, fugeddaboudit. :-)))
In a message dated 09/15/04 7:09:05 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org writes:
IMHO it seems to me that you are looking at the theosophical wisdom with a
very materialistic and logic mind, not even the minute statements in SD or Isis
can be confirmed by the mere use of your intellectuality. Most of what the
Mahatmas recorded by the pen of Blavatsky are, as you know, a truth about the
inner side of things, all we have here around us is mere manifestation of all the
laws she was trying to show and demonstrate.
I guess that as human instruments, as she said, cannot demonstrate the
veracity of much that what she taught, you Perry should tune in, increase your inner
sensibility somehow. It'd be the only way to discover by yourself if
"theosophy may be wrong".
The sense that something is really true must come from inside.
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry Coles
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:46 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: endless series of Seers
Pedro I don't know how to put the issue anymore clearly than it
already has been put.
Nobody is saying (as far as I can ascertain) that HPB's writings are
infallible or even true for that matter(as is my case I don't know if
they are "true")
Each individual can only access that for themselves over many
incarnations I would imagine. (that's if reincarnation is "true")
To me the writings have enough in them to keep me reading and sharing
them with others but always in a critical way open to new rationales
as they are presented.
Theosophy may be wrong !
The ideas seem at this point to me to have some voracity so I
continue my study of them, for now anyway.
You may need to take the Mahatma to task over his own statement as to
the need to be "regularly initiated and trained" in order to have any
confidence on inner plane readings of psychics, that is not my
statement but his.(is he right ? I don't know. the rationale seems
consistent to me)
HPB made repeatedly the same comment it's a shame she's not here for
us to pose that question to.
These statements are hers and the Mahatma's statements not mine or
I place the same quote from `Key' I placed earlier I think it
explains the situation of theosophical teachings far more clearly
than I can :
Keeping in mind the second question on blind faith and how its not in
the "theosophical dictionary"
This is the key to it never becoming dogma or holy writ.
ENQUIRER. But what are your data for this assertion?
THEOSOPHIST. What science in general will never accept as proof -- the
cumulative testimony of an endless series of Seers who have testified
to this fact. Their spiritual visions, real explorations by, and
through, physical and spiritual senses untrammelled by blind flesh,
were systematically checked and compared one with the other, and their
nature sifted. All that was not corroborated by unanimous and
collective experience was rejected, while that only was recorded as
established truth which, in various ages, under different climes, and
throughout an untold series of incessant observations, was found to
agree and receive constantly further corroboration. The methods used
by our scholars and students of the psycho-spiritual sciences do not
differ from those of students of the natural and physical sciences, as
you may see. Only our fields of research are on two different planes,
and our instruments are made by no human hands, for which reason
perchance they are only the more reliable. The retorts, accumulators,
and microscopes of the chemist and naturalist may get out of order;
the telescope and the astronomer's horological instruments may get
spoiled; our recording instruments are beyond the influence of weather
or the elements.
ENQUIRER. And therefore you have implicit faith in them?
THEOSOPHIST. Faith is a word not to be found in theosophical
dictionaries: we say knowledge based, on observation and experience.
There is this difference, however, that while the observation and
experience of physical science lead the Scientists to about as many
"working" hypotheses as there are minds to evolve them, our knowledge
consents to add to its lore only those facts which have become
undeniable, and which are fully and absolutely demonstrated. We have
no two beliefs or hypotheses on the same subject.
--- In email@example.com, "prmoliveira" <prmoliveira@y...>
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, MKR<ramadoss@g...> wrote:
> > Were there not several instances of what is said in Isis
> was "apparently"
> > different from later explanation in SD. When one deals especially
> > matters what psychics can see and describe, there are bound to be
> > differences. Until such time that *we can for ourselves see first
> > there are going to be differences of perception. It also reminds
> of the
> > blind men and the elephant. Each had a different perception and
> > correct in their limited perception.
> Mr Ramadoss:
> I fully agree with your view. We should aim at direct perception of
> the truth (or otherwise) of the teachings for ourselves.
> Regarding "Isis", see what Master K.H. wrote (ML 18, chronological):
> "(By-the-bye you must not trust Isis literally. The book is but a
> tentative effort to divert the attention of the Spiritualists from
> their preconceptions to the true state of things. The author was
> to hint and point out in the true direction, to say what things are
> not, not what they are. Proof reader helping, a few real mistakes
> have crept in as on page 1, chapter 1, volume 1, where divine
> is made emanating from Adam instead of the reverse.)"
> Perhaps the present-day generation of students is faced with a kind
> of antinomy: "Theosophy encourages the seach for Truth, but only
> teachings of HPB and the Mahatmas are true".
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