Theos-Talk Archives (July 2004 Message tt00279)

July 23, 2004

Dear Friend E C and others:

The response below, made me wonder and think. Without meaning to tread on
your or anyones' toes may I say?

How much of the social history reported and taught to us is an actuality?
Many living "old mentors" among the tribes have different memories. Nature 
red in tooth and claw" is NOT a universal fact, nor were past atrocities the
fact -- most generalities are fictional, even those made as "samples"
today.

What about the precepts of the FIVE NATIONS? What about Hiawatha? What
about the innumerable cases of frontiersmen being helped and saved from
torture and death in Indian encampments? What about the case of the sole
surviving Indian who for years lived in the Presidio in San Francisco -- and
there told actual tales of his tribal life, and its extinction by "hunters"
? What did chief Seattle write? What has happened to the many petitions
sent to congress and the Bureau of Indian Affairs in our sorry past? Lets
have a level playing field. 

Insofar as our own present dealings with "foreign ideologies" is concerned,
have we forgotten the lessons recorded in the book THE UGLY AMERICAN ? Most
of us are very insular -- pay a few fleeting visits to many "foreign ports
and Rivieras -- which gives no real contact with other nations. How many of
us know and use actively a "foreign language?" 

In matters of charity and restitution: Supposing we desire to mitigate a
part of the heavy Karma that may be ours in regard to members of a dying, or
other race, which our forefathers may have ill treated, victimized or
subjugated -- as Kali-Yuga proceeds no one seems to be immune from such a
taint. Ity seems to grow enormously every year.

Are we dealing with the inner Ego of the individuals or with their
personalities? It makes a great deal of difference. If it is the EGO
(Monad, ATMA -BUDDHI-MANAS) we are discussing, then we are discussing the
work and progress of the ETERNAL PILGRIM.

If we are discussing the path of a group of personalities such as are
represented in a tribal stream of physical and racial heredity, then there
will be enormous variants. All groups and families have ranges of choice --
from actual and true WISDOM, to utter selfishness and isolation at the
expense of all others. 

Each of us, here and now, have interiorly the divine Monad. Are we
conscious that : ATMA, BUDDHI and MANAS reside in us and in all others? Can
we so orient our choices as to act for and as "the Self of all creatures?"
Each of us, as physical form, embody, as brain-mind persons, only
"reflections" -- more or less perfect -- of the "Inner God" we are, and can
become.

The great and universal Law Of Karma operates at all times, and without any
exceptions, to bring to us as we live now, and in the future, all those
results of such circumstances where we have directly participated in
maltreating (or benefiting) others.  

We then have to deal with them. Broadly we could say:  

Help others and treat all as our brothers, children, relatives, wives,
husbands and sisters -- as members of our intimate family, is the real
practice and the most helpful practical approach that anyone can adopt. In
due course Karma will adjust all. We have to see that when it knocks at our
door, we give it a clear channel, if we are involved, for the best results
to flow to all.

To go in search of those we knew and may have hurt, may be very difficult,
ill equipped, as we presently are to detect and determine precisely what it
is we "owe" to such unnamed and unidentified "others." 

Sentimentally, one is always conscious of the evils done and tyranny
exercised by our forefathers in regard to other ethnic groups. That is a
part of our "karma" we cannot escape.  

However we are not entirely bound by that unknown. We have to deal with the
present. We have to deal with actual and present situations as they arise.

Making financial or other kinds of restitution to the descendents of those
victimized ? It may appear to palliate a little, but, look at the
consequences! Are we really helping them? Or are we offering a soft pad to
our own feelings of "unnamed and vague guilt?" 

Do you really think that the establishment of innumerable gambling joints
(in the case of the "Red-Indian" surviving tribes-people), is spiritual
progress in any way for the Spiritual Being that is now encased (captured in
individuals of the present group), and specifically, in some fanciful,
self-serving and witless modern human forms who join to serve nation-wide
i(f not world-wide) gambling interests?  

Do you think, by paying out a few thousands of dollars (as a donation or a
tax) the "past" evils (known or unknown) can be really "wiped out?" Have
we thereby shifted the onus from our "shoulders" to "theirs?" Or have we
made it possible for that same onus to grow heavier? 

Who is fooling who? Who is actually helping (I mean hands on) those who
deserve our attention?  

Or are we "giving charity through the hands of another" -- which the Buddha
did not recommend.  

And, if we don't personally administer it, what kind of karma is our
apparent sacrifice achieving? 

Is it not compounding the offence of the past (whether it was ourselves in
an earlier incarnation, or others) by our present indifference and lack of
interest? Does our responsibility, if any, go away?

Well that is what I believe Theosophy has said to me on the question of
practical attempts at mitigation of the past, and in dealing with those Egos
who are so increasingly our "present responsibility."

Best wishes, 

Dallas
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: Estela C
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 4:51 PM
To: 
Subject: romantisizing the Red Indian

Western man is not less than, nor is the American Indian greater than.

I would like to express my concern over the recent postings of some of the 
members on this list. The Hollywoodism/romanticism that is floating around 
on this talk list reeks of PC (I call it political coercion), by the nature 
of the phrasing of sentences by a few. It appears that PCism is seeking to 
monitor our thought and gag us again.

It was said, "Because certainly modern western civilization has no moral 
high ground to stand on in comparison to the Red Indian..." Where is the 
data to support such a statement? Could we look at the facts?

There were over 500 nations of American Indians and about 360 separate 
Indian languages. For most of them their standards were similar. They 
made war on each other before the "White Man" arrived. North American 
Indians, especially the Black Foot tribes, would go on war path against 
their neighbors in search of child bearing women, or better hunting 
grounds. If they were successful in entering a neighboring camp, having 
killed off the men warriors of that tribe or having successfully drawn them 
away in feint attacks, they would before taking them away, rape the women 
and young girls, the old men / women and young boys they would 
systematically kill.

This was the way of life in the northern western hemisphere, so I don't see 
how in this "They certainly reflected a greater reverence for life and 
sense of the sacred". Again, where is the data to support such a 
statement? The facts say just the opposite. Has this been simply 
imagined? Is it the input from Hollywood? Where does the "certainty" come 
from? To the contrary, it seems to me there is denial of facts here and a 
rewrite of History.

Yes they prayed. We have seen "romanticized" pictures of male warriors 
praying to the "Great Spirit" but was this before a raid? That Indians have 
a religious life is understandable, all races, tribes, people and nations 
have a religious life. But what did it lead them to do?

The comment was made "In fact many American Indians tribes were much more 
consistant in their moral stance than present day civilization". Let me 
explain reality.

If more female babies were born during a drought or when the tribes were 
not successful in the hunt, they were left abandoned and exposed to the 
elements and animals. In short they were killed.

Consider another practice. Women who were accused of infidelity and failed 
to outrun the fastest male warrior, underwent divorce proceeding that 
included the participation of all willing male members of the tribe, talk 
about group rape.

Also, if a woman lost her husband, and she had no brother, or male kin 
willing to feed her (remember food was a scarce commodity), she was turned 
out of the camp and left to die of either exposure or being killed by a 
tiger, wolf pack or bear.

These are some of the lesser known and consistent practices of the Red 
American Indian that many romantics avoid.

In the face of these facts we simply can no longer say "In fact many 
American Indians tribes were much more consistant in their moral stance 
than present day civilization". Rather, in "modern western 
civilization" we find these standards unthinkable.

We should be willing to face the facts and forgo our dreamy illusions. The 
facts make it clear that in the case of the Red Indian we should avoid the 
evidently strong tendency to romanticize and deal with reality instead.

All races, nations and tribes act very similar to each other, the object of 
life here on earth for the race, tribe and nation is to evolve, to improve, 
to work on blemishes and try to get a little closer to "Tat Twam Asi". We 
all began our existence living in mud huts/tepees, what distinguishes one 
group or person from the other is how far from that point of origin they 
have come.

Western civilization on the whole has shown a large growth pattern over the 
millennia, starting with Greece, onto the Magna Carta and then to the 
American Constitution as we learn to deal with larger and more complex 
social structures than faced the Red Indian. In our turn we are learning 
to incorporate respect for the individual and respect for human life into 
the formalities of these large social structures.

A question to all - In time the 6th root race will make its appearance on 
this earth, are we to begrudge them their superiority as it will be a 
result of evolution?

Estela C