Theos-Talk Archives (July 2004 Message tt00210)

Dallas
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Reed Carson [mailto:reed3@b...] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 12:03 PM
To: study@b...
Subject: [bn-study] RE: atlantis - cuba

Brian,

I think your points are exactly right and well expressed.

HPB says Atlantis was on the mid-atlantic ridge. I don't think she gives 
the exact location of Poseidonis. (Anyone please let me know if I am 
wrong.) I am going to place Poseidonis at the foot of the Azores (which of 
course is right on the mid-atlantic ridge as specified by HPB and directly 
"west of Gibraltar" as you put it). I will have serious reasons with 
strong science behind them. In the end I will adduce a comment from the 
Secret Doctrine that appears to confirm this positioning and is 
specifically confirmed by the most modern science.

==========================================

DTB		

ATLANTIS	see S D II 326-7,

Science admits overwhelming evidence of Atlantis
THEOSOPHY XIII, p. 121; XIV p. 23; XVII p. 403; 
THEOSOPHY XVIII p. 396; XIX, p. 211; 
THEOSOPHY Vol. 2, p 576; VII p. 94; XV, p. 59;  

ATLANTIS used remnants of Lemuria	S D II 433fn, 324-8, 337,

POSEIDONIS S D II 8, 9, 141, 250fn, 265, 314, 323, 324fn, 327, 352,
370-1, 395, 407-8, 693, 743fn, 751fn, 761 & fn, 765-8, 
Engulphed 9,600 B C, M L p 150, 155;
WHERE THE RISHIS WERE, Judge - "Letters"
FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY, 2nd Edn. p. 168; 

ISLAND LINKS across Atlantic Ocean: S D II 424, 
Caycee on THEOSOPHY Vol. 55, p. 156-7;

Phoenicians in America	ISIS UNVEILED I 551, 555,
THEOSOPHY XIX p. 184,
THEOSOPHY XVI p. 23,

Peruvian and Trojan bronze vases exchanged . [ 6000 B C ?]
["From King Chromos of Atlantis" -- mate to this vase found in Tia-Huanaco,
Peru, now in Louvre , Paris.	THEOSOPHY Vol. 2, p. 191-2;
THEOSOPHY XVI, p. 23, 70-6, 113, 236-7; 336,    
THEOSOPHY XVII, p. 235;   

Fall of Troy given by HPB as close to 6000 B C S D II 437fn]

Antiquity of man in America, connection with Egyptians and Chinese,
THEOSOPHY XIV, p. 330-1, 380-1; XXI, p. 126;  
THEOSOPHY XVIII, p. 254; XIX, p. 214-5; 574; S D II 182; 
THEOSOPHY XXII, 142-3, 203, 255, 520; 
THEOSOPHY Vol. 55, p. 313 (on Olmecs) 

"BONE PEDDLERS" art. THEOSOPHY Vol. 73, pp 153, 255, 281-2'
THEOSOPHY Vol 76, p. 187;

Egypt and America related: S D I 322; II 35, 403,  
THEOSOPHY XXI, p. 124; XXII, pp 12-20; 203, 

American Indian Racial types found in Tibet  
THEOSOPHY XV, 94-5;

SUB-MARINE traces of Atlantis: S D ii 333-4; Isis I 558; 

Cuba, Bahamas and Caribbean not mentioned.

==========================================


This will require heavy lifting. I had mentioned to you that science had 
two main objections to the Atlantis of Plato. The first was the 9,000 
years. Now let me add that the second is the geological objection. The 
land at the foot of the Azores is much deeper than 2,200 feet!

=================================

DTB	In THEOSOPHY, Vol. XXII I recall, but not exactly where, there was
in item concerning a rapid change in the depth of the Pacific Ocean, off
Peru, Bolivia -- of changes in sea-bottom levels which occurred seemingly
unnoticed  
THEOSOPHY XXI, p. 220; 
[THEOSOPHY, Vol. XXII, possibly pp. 12-16, 109, 155, 255, ] 
THEOSOPHY, Vol. XVIII, p. 296.

LEMURIAN MAN	THEOSOPHY XXIII p. 184-5;  

=============================

In the course of my answer I will have to explain why science is so certain 
Plato is wrong geologically. Then it will be necessary to examine science.

==================================

[ DTB	See on Geological ages S D II 709-13

ASTRAL Fossils	S D II 68fn, 688-9, 713

===========================================

But before that I think it will be useful to explain the current state of 
affairs concerning Bimini. [BAHAMAS]

==================================

DTB	Not mentioned in S D 


Best wishes

Dal
=======================================

Reed


=========================================


At 02:07 PM 7/15/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Thank you Reed,

Like Poseidenis, no evidence was cited that Cuba was ever totally
submerged. Also, 2,200 feet is very deep! If the continent cited by
Plato is the Americas, that just means Atlantis was in the Atlantic
Ocean. If it was that far away, you'd expect to get some idea that it was
a very long, long way from the Pillars of Hercules. If it was off Africa
or Europe, rather than west of Gibraltar, you'd expect him to say that
too.

Where do you think Atlantis was? Was it on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge?


Brian

=====================================================>

-----Original Message-----
From: Reed Carson [mailto:reed3@b...]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 1:31 PM
To: study@b...
Subject: [bn-study] Atlantis - Cuba


Brian,

HPB of course does have some very definite statements on Atlantis. I will
be getting to those. In my opinion, though, there is much material that
should be covered to do HPB the justice she deserves on this subject. I
would like her to receive that justice. So as part of working up to her
view, I will be first answering your questions as you framed them.

You asked about the Carribean as a site for Atlantis.


Background: Fidel Castro was attempting to raise funds by looking for
shipwrecks with treasure aboard that are within his territorial waters. He
hired the high tech company of Advanced Digital Communications. Paulina
Zelitsky is associated with that company.


On May 14, 2001 Reuters reported about her companies discovery off Cuba:

"Most intriguingly, researchers using sonar equipment have discovered, at a
depth of about 2,200 feet, a huge land plateau with clear images of what
appears to be urban development partly covered by sand. From above, the
shapes resemble pyramids, roads and buildings."

This of course is exciting sounding material. I was looking forward to a
significant find. Even though HPB (Blavatsky) asserts Atlantis was in the
mid Atlantic - it could still have outposts at Cuba.

The Reuters release further said:

``It is stunning. What we see in our high-resolution sonar images are
limitless, rolling, white sand plains and, in the middle of this beautiful
white sand, there are clear manmade large-size architectural designs. It
looks like when you fly over an urban development in a plane and you see
highways, tunnels and buildings,'' Zelitsky said.

``We don't know what it is and we don't have the videotaped evidence of
this yet, but we do not believe that nature is capable of producing planned
symmetrical architecture, unless it is a miracle,'' she added in an
interview at her office at Tarara, along the coast east of Havana.


This became extra interesting because Andrew Collins had recently written
an excellent book that deeply researched old documents to find traces of
knowledge of the western hemisphere in the old world. This led him to be
the first to predict Cuba as the location of Atlantis. So the Cuba find of
Zelitsky directed the spotlight of attention to his book "Gateway to
Atlantis" (at www.seekerbooks.com/atlantis/locations/index.htm#0786709634)

It has been more than three years now and I have not heard any further
positive result. Maybe others have. But there is a negative
result. There is another book "The A.R.E.'s Search for Atlantis" by
Gregory and Lora Little. It is an excellent book and I expect to say more
about it later. In that book are two quotes: "Sonar images can be very
misleading, and wrecks and debris can be mistaken for structures." (p
60). Zelitsky had been using Sonar. And "In other cases, the sonar
picture is far more geometrical than the anomalies appear to a diver." (p62)

What we discover is that Zelitsky subsequently took video of the site to
supplement her sonar data. She then showed that video to Collins. Now if
that Little book is read it becomes clear that it properly reflects the
views of Collins. Collins wrote the introduction for it. That book also
says "Initially, ADC utilized side-scanning sonar to discover the "ruins,"
but later they sent a small remote camera into the fast-moving, murky
water. After viewing the video footage ADC sent him, Collins was
unconvinced that the stone features discovered by ADC were actual
ruins. To this writing, [book published in 2003] no new information has
been released by ADC, and the world awaits the eventual outcome."

So here is the rub. Collins has much to gain if the Cuba site is
verified. However when shown the video he was "unconvinced". So now more
than 3 years later I am skeptical of the bold original claims.

_______
There are also some theoretical problems with the Cuban theory. Cuba is
not under the sea. Part of the alledged plain described by Plato in the
dialogues as pointed to by Collins is indeed underwater. But other parts
of alleged Poseidonis are above water. That is not so suitable for an
island that Plato says sank "in a day and a night".

Here is a key passage from Plato:

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the
Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the
straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was
larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands,
and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which
surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of
Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a
real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless
continent."

A shocking note here is Plato's reference to "a boundless
continent". There is wide agreement that the reference is to the Western
Hemisphere. But isn't that startling that Plato should know about
that? (It would not be shocking according to some of HPB's statements.)

Also note that Plato is quite aware here of the distinction between the
Atlantic and the Mediterranean. That decreases the viability of the
arguments of Galanopoulos.

And finally this passage reflects negatively on the arguments of
Collins. He makes much in his book of the greater and lesser
Antilles. But in his case of Cuba those islands lead TO his proposed
Atlantis and not FROM it as Plato mentions.

So, Brian, grand conclusion: Likely nothing Atlantean has been found in
Cuba. I'll keep an open mind though. And the details of Collins'
argument, while very well done, don't satisfy all the requirements.

Reed