Theos-Talk Archives (July 2004 Message tt00183)

Dallas,
And the occult difference between volition , desire and will?
Puzzling.!?
Try.
Krishtar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dallas TenBroeck 
To: study@blavatsky.net 
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: Theos-World : re "exoteric/esoteric," Dallas and ...


Dear Philip:



As I understand the word "will" relates to the power we each one have of
choosing to make a decision and then continuing in that until the end.



For example the connection between your thought: " I will type and use my
fingers." And the actual muscular effort to move the fingers, is caused by
an operation of the inner intangible WILL. 



Check this out for yourself. 



YOU tell the fingers to move. 



The necessary muscles are then moved from within by the directed will of YOU
YOURSELF. 



The acquirement of knowledge by listening, seeing, studying is still another
operation of the will. 



YOU decide to acquire information. 



YOU decide to listen to a lecture, or listen to answers. 



YOU decide to go to the encyclopedia and find out the information there. 



YOU read.



YOU decide (another act of the will) if you will accept or reject that
information.



YOU the decide whether you will make a powerful impression or a weak
impression on your memory.



When you "set aside" all knowledge acquired from any source, than I believe
you are putting yourself into a mode of 1. reception, 2. consideration, 3.
comparison (with information or knowledge already acquired), and finally you
4. add, or, 5. put into reserve for future consideration, or, 6. reject.
Am I wrong?



To experience anything is to live the next moment, as all our living is made
up the same elements done in a very quick time. 



To consider the value of any idea is an independent power we all have. We
are not the ideas. We consider them as mental "pictures." And we add or
subtract from those all the time. 



We always do this alone on our own. I think you are right in that. 



To consider the moral effect of any choice is to set up to consider again
what we already know of a "virtue" (if we consider that as a "TRUTH") and
then consider a proposed set of actions and their PROBABLE result. 



In this we take for granted that NATURE is always true, faithful and just to
us. It is always supportive of our life and its continuation. But it also
brings to us always the exact result of our choices and actions, thoughts,
words, etc. 



We know in our "heart" and "inner consciousness" that WE CANNOT ESCAPE the
results of anything we do. We are never EXCUSED or FORGIVEN. 



This is the main difficulty we all have. As children we were often forgiven
our errors, or some penalty was excused either by our parents or teachers.
When we grow up and become adults, and then we "do wrong," we hope we can be
forgiven.



So what has happened everywhere? Clever persons (who become priests) create
a religion in which there is a "forgiving God." To make this credible we
are told from a very early age that he/ or she (GOD) will usually respond to
our prayers and praise of his/her greatness. (Why should God do this if he
created everything and ourselves, and is so to say, the ultimate tyrant?) 



The priests explain this by saying he/she is "whimsical," and may (or may
not) respond. (There is a chance - they claim -- that there may be a
response favourable to our hopes for forgiveness). 



We are also told (by the priests) that if we make the proper sacrifices and
perform the regular and customary ceremonies, (and pay the priest enough),
he (the priest who claims that he has special access to God's ear, will
intercede for us). 



In this it is generally presumed that "God" is able to break his own laws
and at a whim or his pleasure, give us a pardon, or restore "happiness."
(But, perhaps the priest is not really powerful enough ? or, is making false
claims. We certainly are not encouraged to think much about that.) 



At this point we really need to review all such cases and see if anything
was actually given to us. We do know that if nothing happens, the priest
will say "It was God's will that nothing would happen." 



And so, for the average person, who does not try to verify such "mysteries,"
belief in god and trust in an UNJUST UNIVERSE is promoted and continued as
an "act of faith." 



You may say I am painting an unfair picture. Is this so? I say: If "GOD"
is all-seeing, and all-powerful, why am I not stopped from saying this? Why
do I offer to "unsettle the faith" of my readers? How is it that I am
permitted such latitude?



Theosophy says that NATURE is GOD and the UNIVERSE is DEITY for everyone and
everything. If at any point LAW was being broken or applied "whimsically"
then, we would have universal chaos and our present existence would be
entirely pointless. It does not seem to be so, does it? So how do we
resolve the puzzle?



But, we are not yet able to see all the many ways in which NATURE does this.
[I use the word NATURE to include every aspect of the Universe and our world
that has a bearing on our existence.] How can the world we live and depend
on and the Universe surrounding us be other than ENTIRELY LAWFUL,
impersonal, just, and therefore merciful.



Yes we have an option we can live and OBEY the laws of Nature, or we can
break them - and take the consequences. By the way, this is one of the
proofs of the immortality of the Spirit/Soul in man and in all and every
part of Nature (from the atom to the end of the infinite Galaxy). 



It takes an immortal SPIRITUAL SOUL to grasp these ideas and to see the
necessity for their being carried out for each of us and for everything.
Then the process of reincarnation makes sense. 



Where are the "seeds of wrong?" They lie in our sense of independence and
our own individual "power to choose." We have to choose to be righteous and
fair to all our brother immortals. We cannot escape from their eternal
company.



If we take "brotherhood" as our aim and practice, then all our problems
begin to vanish and disappear. Mentally, we can assure ourselves of this
and prove it to ourselves. Then we seek the laws and rules of living and
apply them to our own moment to moment living.



It is not easy and it cannot be done suddenly, but little by little we can
TRY to improve and reform ourselves. 



This as I see it. Forgive me for this long explanation.



Best wishes,





Dallas

=====================



-----Original Message-----


From: Philip N
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:35 PM
To: 
Subject: ] RE: re "exoteric/esoteric," Dallas and ...



Thanks, Dallas, for the insight. 



May I add a comment on the topic of the will, based on my limited and
incomplete understanding:



It seems that when the will is based on knowledge acquired from the outside
then it is not permanent. 



Sometimes it prevails, sometimes it does not. It seems that perhaps at some
stage, one must "set aside" all knowledge acquired through the mind (even
knowledge provided by Theosophy) in order to fully "realize" the true causes
and effects of one's actions as they (causes and effects) manifest in the
present (and consequently in the past and in the future). 





It seems that one must go through the same steps as other Great Beings, by
oneself, without help from anyone and from anything. There seem to be no
shortcuts for anyone. 



But, also, when true understanding is attained, it seems that the "will" is
no longer required or is no longer the same because there would be no effort
required to make a distinction between the right and the wrong things. When
the "effort" is present it seems that it is an indication that the seeds of
the wrong things are still embedded.



Regards



Philip 


----- Original Message -----




From: "Dallas TenBroeck" 
........




"What is your 'will' ?" He next asked.


I answered that I did not know beyond the fact that I was able to see an
alternative and then, I could choose to make (or take) a new direction of
thought and personal design. It was a power I could use but not describe
yet. Also, I added, one has to know how do I discern "good" from "evil?"
................................



"I have observed that although I make resolves to do "good," there is an
aspect of myself that desires pleasure, leisure, indolence, distraction,
excitement, or even carelessness, and while I can see that those are selfish
and isolate me from others, they are strong, and at times they overcome my
will to do what I innately know is "right." Why is this?"
.....


"Well, to recognize that there is a "right" and a "wrong" area is important,
but trying to find out what makes them so is even more important? And this
is what we are trying to do," he replied. "Perhaps," he added, "a view of
the Law of the Universe and of Nature acting in and through us and our Earth
is what is needed." WE all agree that we could not be alive in these bodies
of ours if universal laws did not continually operate to support them."
............................................................................
........



"I can add: that I come to the conclusion that I need more knowledge of the
laws of nature, and greater power to visualize the results of such actions I
choose to make, and words I choose to use."
............................................................................
...........



"In short, every virtue that is discussed and explained
by say, the Buddha, or Krishna, or Jesus, needs to be brought into my
personal basis for action to the extent that I am able to do so."
........................................



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