Theos-Talk Archives (July 2004 Message tt00177)

July 13, 2004


Dear Mauri:

You are right. Definitions being words, used among us, may mean different
things to different minds. 

But I think there is a plane that is deeper than our personal opinions and
that may be one of the community of MIND -- taken as a universal faculty
which we all seem to have a share of. Is this possible?  

For example what is a Scientific or a mathematical verity? Or, "actuality?"
Are "axioms" acceptable, and if so, when?

I was trying to delve deeper and find it there is such a basis that abandons
words (which are 'surface' to me) and find a common ground -- IDEAS. Ideas
can be expressed in many ways.  

I am of the impression we all share, that but find it difficult to define or
to convey our conclusions and definitions to others. Therefore by exposing
them, we work together and straighten or broaden them out.  

Yes. I do seem to make a lot of very positive statements. But I also try to
provide my reasoning for scrutiny. I too have my speculations, but then I
try to place them in front of me as part of a vast puzzle -- and also seek
to juxtapose the views of others. I think there is "safety in numbers" when
we are looking for the confirmation of basic facts.

It is (to me) like a problem in math, physics, chemistry or geometry. We
may approach it in our own way, but the ultimate answer is one of common
agreement -- I see no special harm in that, and as you wisely say, "reality"
is for us a variable.  

Some, even of the "definite answers" for one person, may appear as divergent
or faulty to another. No one ought to ever think their answer is the
finality of the ultimate TRUTH. We are all seeking for that. In the
meantime we ought to be flexible, and willing to review our "fixtures" in
the light of another mind. I find it interesting that several opinions can
be held as objects for comparison. There are no "authorities" in this kind
of investigation, are there?

I noticed in reading old Buddhist scriptures that the phrase: "Thus have I
heard..." 
Was often used by a Bhikku in repeating the Buddha's words as quotes. So
anything we say (or I say) ought to be suspect, unless and until it agrees
with such a record of wisdom and research as has the value of great
antiquity. It would be strange to find that Nature, which so carefully
supports us as individuals and as personalities, suddenly varies her
responses and her reasons for them. So, a study 
Ought to bring convergence, rather than a morass of "supposes."

Even "supposes" have to have a basis in fact. Yes again I agree that the
"Head" and the "Heart" provide us with opposites for comparison. And
strangely, we find ourselves always in the middle of this seesaw. 

Best wishes,

Dallas
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: Mauri [mailto:mhart@idirect.ca] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 6:55 AM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: re Dallas and ...

Dallas<<July 12 2004 Dear Mauri: 
Consider: What is the difference between 
a thoughtful person and one who is still 
not able to probe deep to base roots?>>

M	That obviously depends on how one 
prefers to define that difference. Your 
"what is the difference" comes across to 
me as if you might think that there's 
only one answer to that question.

<<Are "speculations" based on "deep 
roots" or, on partial levels of
understanding, and therefore they shift 
and are unstable?>>

M	Same kind of response.

<<How is it that you define life as a 
"duality?" What are its components?>>

M	My "immersion in duality" was meant in 
the sense of "life" that's "dualistic." 
The components are all around.

<<If "speculations" are held, are they 
illusory or real?>>

M	I seem to have realized long ago that 
reality is relative. That's not saying 
that I find a shortage of reality.

<<Are they legitimate "threads of 
thought" under development? Or are they 
raised for the sake of amusement and 
argument by our "lower minds"? In other 
words, what positive good are they? Do 
they last, or fade and disappear? >>

M	Depends on one's interpretations, seems 
to me.

<<What has been done with the vast heap 
of speculations over the past few
years? If they have disappeared (or 
been stored) then what ? Any
increment? Can it be measured? Has it 
value?>>

M	Depends on one's interpretations, seems 
to me.

<<How could a "deep root of thought" be 
defined, or, if any, are they to be
totally denied? If so, how does it 
happen we are here at all and able to
communicate?>>

M	Depends. So many interpretations out 
there. Since I have yet to "directly 
experience" something "more real," I 
prefer to speculate, think about 
possibilities.

<<What allows communication? Query? 
Language? Medium of communication?
Search for a more definite positional 
answer? Or, is it just "hot air?"
Clouds are nice and sometimes there is 
enough of them to provide rain. When
excessive we have floods. Why? Can 
norms and balances be found?>>

M	Depends on interpretive preferences, 
doesn't it ...

<<When swimming in a lake, or the ocean, 
I know there is a bottom and above
the water's surface is air. I need 
that air. I also need to find the
nearest shore as I can't float 
indefinitely, and am not equipped to 
find my food in the water without a 
platform, tools and maybe, intelligent
assistance. >>

M	Seems as if we might have somewhat 
different ways of defining some things. 

Having recently read THE GNOSTIC 
GOSPELS by "Elaine Pagels," I'm tending 
to think that people, in general, might 
tend to more or less split along lines 
of what might be called "orthodox" or 
"gnostic" preferences. Not that there 
might not be some overlap between those 
two. Seems as if that's karmic reality 
or influences at work, if you want to 
look at it that way ...

<<So (if I desire to live) I begin to 
think about essentials. What are they
and where are they? This is what I am 
trying to convey.>>

M	Seems as if we might we all tend to 
define our "essentials" somewhat 
differently. But if we were to use our 
"heart influence," then, maybe, our 
"head influence" might not get us into 
too much trouble ... Or something like 
that ...

<<Many of us have ideas. Some are 
definite as memory of experience. Some 
are speculative as fancy and "What ifs?" 
So what is useful to us and others?

Best wishes,

Dallas>>

M	Hmm ...

-----------------------------------

Speculatively,

Mauri

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