Theos-Talk Archives (July 2004 Message tt00006)

Leon, you wrote:

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I think we are mixing apples and oranges when 
we compare the manifestation of simple substances 
like base metals, non living carbonaceous substances 
like paper along with the writing on it, or simple 
plaster -- with more complex structures like glazed 
and painted porcelain of particular design, or manufactured
items like computers (that began this commentary in 
the first place).

The concept of a light manipulated hologram was just 
proposed as one possibility of a manifestation of a 
physical form, and did not preclude other methods
of so called "materialization's" -- such as actual 
disassembly and reassembly of material particles 
that make up a simple form, precipitation of writing 
on existing or manifested paper of temporary or 
permanent form -- depending on the method of precipitation 
or assembly, etc. Such phenomena can be done by
many different methods of correlation and manipulation 
of coenergetic forces on or through multiple levels 
of hyperspace. 

===================================================

But Leon, my question to you and other interested readers is:

are we really mixing apples with oranges??

As far as I can tell, you have not made a case for that
other than to assert it.

If an adept can manipulate the "atoms" in a letter or
in a piece of plaster; if an occultist such as HPB or
KH could materialize a letter from the Akasa or teleport
one from one location to another; if HPB
or M could precipitate ink on a sheet of paper, then
is it such a LEAP that they could do the same with 
a cup or a brooch or the dozens of other
larger objects that apparently HPB "created" or 
"manipulated"?

You write as though it is a matter of fact that:

"Such phenomena [that you accept ]can be done by many different 
methods of correlation and manipulation of coenergetic forces 
on or through multiple levels of hyperspace."

If that is true, then why not that of a cup or brooch?

You say that the cup would be a "more complex structure"
than paper or plaster, but you have not shown why
an adept who can manipulate the "atoms" of paper or
plaster cannot also manipulate the "atoms" of a cup or a brooch.

The Randis of the world would no doubt say we are simply
talking about apples. There are NO oranges. The human "mind" 
or "will" cannot directly manipulate matter either thru levitation or 
materialization.

And that all such claimed occurrences concerning paranormal
manipulation of paper or cups involve some ERROR of observation or 
FRAUD, conjuring tricks, etc. etc.

I may be missing your point but as far as I can see it, you
have only made an assertion.

Daniel
http://hpb.cc
http://theosophy.info