Theos-Talk Archives (June 2004 Message tt00215)

In a message dated 06/23/04 10:35:58 AM, danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com writes:

>Leon, 
>
>I love your "take" on the cup and saucer but I do have a question.
>
>First, I quote the relevant part of your post and then
>follow that with a question.
>
>==================================================
>
>As for materialization's... It may be possible to 
>bend light by the powers of mind and will, and 
>project a visualized image of an object to appear 
>as a hologram -- which could be taken for the 
>real thing. But I seriously doubt that anyone, 
>including those on the level of a Master 
>occultist, could actually manifest a physical 
>cup that someone can drink out of, or 
>dematerialize such a cup and re-materialize 
>it at a remote location. Such an improbability 
>could apply to any item that achieved its form 
>or structure from logical human design
>and engineering aided by scientifically 
>sound chemical and physical manufacturing processes.
>
>If you carefully read "all" the writings of 
>HPB (as I have) you will find that she has consistently 
>denied such possibilities and has said that all such
>so, called "Magic" or mysterious appearances and 
>disappearances cannot have supernatural causes, and 
>are based simply on the proper application of
>"glamour"... That is, manipulating the mind of 
>the viewer rather than the actual forces
>that make up the objects themselves.
>
>It therefore becomes quite evident that all 
>this talk of actual teleportation of real objects 
>and their dematerialization and materialization is 
>just a lot of speculative whistling in the wind, 
>and a waste of time... As is all talk
>about apparently "miraculous" occurrences based 
>on blind belief, or on supposition without direct 
>evidence of the processes involved along with the
>knowledge of the logical scientific principles behind them.
>
>===================================================
>

>So Leon, what are you telling us about the cup and saucer
>at the picnic? Are you saying that no real physical cup and
>saucer was ever dug up by Mr. Henderson? Are you telling
>us that what they thought was a real physical cup and saucer 
>was ONLY a mental "hologram", a thought-form you might say?
>
>A clarification of this would be appreciated.

No, I said it could have been. But I doubt it in the present case, where a 
real cup was supposedly found, added to the set, and presumedly used to serve 
tea to the new guest who came on the scene. 

However, saying this reminds me that the real cup and saucer could have been 
lost years before (and the tree roots grown over and around it) by the owners 
who may have visited that spot earlier -- since it was near a Temple where 
many picnickers who lived nearby may have gone in the past. HPB, being 
clairvoyant, supposedly, could have then "found" the lost items in one of her "brown 
studies" or trance states. Of course I understand this is only a "possibility" 
like many of those arguments used by skeptics. 

To set the record straight, I do not deny the additional possibility that it 
could also have been a true teleportation by HPB using her Adept powers of 
mind. (Although I also respect her statements that most so called psychic 
phenomena, as witnessed by others, is caused by the use of "glamour.") 

In any event, my comment that all this conversation on the mystical finding 
and appearance of the cup and saucer is a "waste of time" -- is because, no 
conclusion can ever be reached as to the actuality of any of the possibilities -- 
since none of them, including the use of Adept powers to materialize and 
dematerialize inorganic objects can be proven -- except by eye witness testimony 
-- which, as has been demonstrated numerous time by police investigators, is 
notoriously unreliable. 

Additionally, the reason why none of the theosophical metaphysics or their 
theoretical interpretations (such as my multidimensional ABC theory, as an 
attempt to scientifically justify psychic phenomena from an Astro-electrical 
coenergetic point of view) cannot be considered truly "scientific" (under the 
conventional definition of scientific method requiring objective experimental 
evidence to prove their factuality) -- is that such sub spatial theories of 
consciousness cannot be falsified using the scientific method, but can only be 
experienced or reported upon subjectively. Thus, in speaking about them, we can only 
philosophize using valid logical premises and conclusions, and can never 
arrive at an objective proof that any proposed metaphysical process is a valid one 
from a scientific point of view. It's wise to recognize the difference 
between a philosophical concept leading to a hypothetical scientific theory, and a 
proven scientific fact.

However, I know for a fact (although it can never be "proven" except 
subjectively) that my multidimensional coenergetic view of the seven fold nature of 
reality -- which is not only consistent with HPB's metaphysics and the "formulas 
in the Book of Dzyan, as well as with all the theories of modern and post 
modern science -- completely explains the mechanism of information transfer 
between consciousness and the forms of matter on each successive plane of 
existence, from the spiritual to the physical. It also explains the source and focus 
of both will and awareness in the zero-point of origination of each such 
octaval fields of consciousness, ad infinitum. 

In this light, I believe that all psychic phenomena can be initiated, 
controlled and directed by one who is centered at that zero-point, is knowledgeable 
of the continuity of the cyclic forces and their harmonic resonance's, and who 
can apply will in the proper manner and direction to correlate such forces on 
each successive plane of action -- so as to manifest (by transference) the 
vibrational patterns of a visualized form in the highest plane of Manas through 
the intermediate planes, onto the lower plane of physical matter/energy. 

The major prerequisite for such an effect would be an extreme and unwavering 
concentration of mind on a single point that links together, in the proper 
order, the zero-point centers of each element in the structure to be formed. The 
problem here is to not only be able to visualize the outer form from all 
three dimensions or six directions of global space, but also their inner 
constituent sub forms elements in their proper location within that space -- and to 
steadily hold that visualization in mind until the entire step down process of 
transubstantiation is completed in physical time. A mean feat, to say the 
least. But one that the mind of an Adept like HPB could very well achieve, for 
very simple objects that is, but rarely, if ever, IMO, for any complex 
manufactured physical objects that are composed of more than a few elements and 
molecules, such as a watch or computer. Jewelry, of course, composed of single 
elements, would be relatively easier. 

In any event, since observers would be satisfied with only the outer image of 
an object, it would seem to me that the use of glamour or light bending 
tricks to form holograms would be a much easier and safer option.

This could be almost a necessity in some cases -- since the energy of such a 
transference (by a "white" magician) would have to come from the astral form 
of the Adept (rather than vampirized from the surrounding observers as a 
"black" magician might do)... Is it any wonder, then, why HPB might prefer using 
glamour to convince the credulous onlooker of a psychic phenomena -- rather than 
such a self damaging method of an actual transubstantiation process? 
Although, precipitation of writing on pieces of existing paper could be a relatively 
low energy drain on the Adept, that might be worth accepting to attain the 
resultant effect. (Also, that mightn't be more life draining than smoking one of 
her cigarettes.:-)

Leon