Theos-Talk Archives (February 2004 Message tt00095)

Feb 17 2004

Dear RP:

RE: Fw: [bn-study] Man as (Manas) the thinker or Reflective
Being.


I have scanned what is attributed to Sai Baba -- as sent to you by your
daughter.

As far as I understand it: The theory of Kama and Manas control is well
expressed as directed to individual advancement.  

But does such a practise lead to a knowledge of the SELF ? It seems to
me to be an APPLICATION of its faculties. To use a "tool" is one thing.
To know why the tool was made and what its ideal IMPERSONAL use and
purpose is in Nature is another. This draws out the "Heart Doctrine"
and I think leads to a higher perception. Does it ?

Take for example: "Of teachers there are many. The MASTER SOUL [ATMA]
is One., Alaya, the Universal Soul. Live in that Master as its ray in
thee. Live in thy fellows as they live in it." VOICE p. 54
How is this to be understood?

Ultimately such application when directed solely to one's lower self
(This life's Personality) and its control, could lead to the success
level of a "Pratyekha Buddha". -- With Nirvana as the personal objective
of this kind of technical "Buddha." It is the fruit of control of
personal desire in relation to the control of our present "mask" -- our
personality. 

Yet we are also told that such "buddhas" return [ S D II 79 (bottom)
and 94 (top)]. This is important, as it may lead to understanding that
there are goals even superior to this one. How can we think about that?

As I proceeded, It seemed to me that: -- I think it fails in compassion
and mercy for others -- which according to the GREAT BUDDHA Gautama
Siddartha and Sri Sankaracharya ought to have a superior position and
our chief attention.

The universalizing factor -- as will be found at the end of The VOICE OF
THE SILENCE (pp. 74 - 79) is an imperative of far greater power and
reach -- the assisting one can give to others -- as it has been given to
us (see S D II 167; I 207-210 -- as "Great Sacrifice")  

[ To me, it is a logical derivative of the fact that we (interiorly as a
"Ray" of the Universal ATMA / ALAYA ) are immortal LIFE-CONSCIOUSNESSES
-- just as all others are so also. If this is the case we are a vast
brotherhood of individuals who are striving to attain a common goal:
the SPIRITUALIZING OF THE UNIVERSE. As true spiritual brothers we
cannot isolate ourselves without damaging this cooperative and
inter-active concept. However, to view our selves as distinct and
separate entities is selfish, and adds to the confusion of isolation in
a Universe that is based on sharing and generosity.]  

As an example of this our life as a personality is to be seen for what
it actually is so far: the result of the gift and sacrifice of
innumerable other Monads. 

Of those "lower" than we are, as well as of those who are superior" in
status and achievement than we are. All great prophets, and ascetics
belong to this category. They have assumed this position (as volunteers
by their own free choice) (see S D I 272-3 ).

What seem (to me) lacking -- in what I was given to read -- is the
aspect of brotherhood and helping others as a special one of ascetic
discipline which leads to continued sacrifice (sacred actions) for
others who "know still less than thou."  

I wonder if this is what Sai Baba teaches in fact, or if this is an
interpretation that is placed on what he actually says? Do those who
listen to him hear only what they want to hear? Or do they hear the
WHOLE MESSAGE?

Interesting. Also, and again, consider this:

"Of teachers there are many. The MASTER SOUL [ATMA] is One., Alaya, the
Universal Soul. Live in that Master as its ray in thee. Live in thy
fellows as they live in it." Voice 54

What is the "message" of the GREAT SACRIFICE [ S D I 207 -210 ?]

Thanks, and all good wishes,

Dallas

=============================================
-----Original Message-----
From: ult-blr [mailto:ult_blr@vsnl.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:21 AM
To: 
Subject: Fw: Fw: [bn-study] Man as (Manas) the thinker or Reflective
Being.


Dallas and Jerome,


My daughter keeps mailing me Sai Baba's teachings. I am forwarding this.
Sounds very theosophical.

Ramprakash

----- Original Message -----
From: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: Fw: [bn-study] Man as (Manas) the thinker or Reflective
Being.


> I was reading something relevant to this in the book "Sutra Vahini" by
Sai
> Baba. Here's an excerpt about the nature of the mind:
>
> "Among the preliminary qualifications for Brahma Jijnaasa('the
yearning to
> understand the nature of Brahman'), the first is Viveka
(Discrimination
> between the transitory and the eternal), the second Vairaagya
> (non-attachment) and the third "Sama-damaadi Guna Sampath", which is
the
> group of six virtues, Sama, Dama and the rest.
>
> Sama means mind-control. This is very hard to achieve. The mind can
cause
> bondage; it can also confer liberation. It is an amalgam of Rajasic
and
> Thamasic modes, the passionate and dull attitudes. It is easily
polluted.
It
> relishes in hiding the real nature of things and casting on them the
forms
> and values which it desires. So, the activities of the mind have to be
> regulated.
>
> The mind has two characteristics. The first is: it runs behind the
senses;
> whatever sense the mind follows helplessly, it is inviting disaster.
When
a
> pot of water becomes empty, we need not infer that it has leaked away
> through ten holes; one hole is enough to make it empty. So too, among
the
> senses, even if one is not under control, one will be thrown into
bondage.
> Therefore, every sense has to be mastered.
>
> The second characteristic of the mind is: The potency of the mind can
be
> promoted by good practices like Dhyana, Japa, Bhajana and Puja. With
the
> strength and skill thus reinforced, the mind can help the world or
harm
it.
> So, the mental power gained by such Sadhana has to be turned away from
wrong
> paths and controlled by Sama. The senses have to be directed by the
> principle of intelligence, the Buddhi. They must be released from the
hold
> the mind has on them. Then spiritual progress can be attained.
>
> Manas or Mind is but a bundle of thoughts, a complex of wants and
wishes.
As
> soon as a thought, a desire or a wish raises its head from the mind,
Buddhi
> must probe into its value and validity - is it good or bad, will it
help
or
> hinder, where will this lead or end. If the mind does not submit to
this
> probe, it will land itself in the path of ruin. If it does and obeys
the
> intelligence, it can move along the right path.
>
> Man has three chief instruments for uplifting himself: Intelligence,
Mind
> and the Senses. When the mind gets enslaved by the senses, man gets
> entangled and bound. The same mind, when it is regulated by the
intellect,
> can make man aware of his Reality, the Atma. This is why the mind is
reputed
> to cause either bondage or liberation.
>
> Now, for the second of the six virtues: Dama. Dama means keeping the
body
> and the senses under control. This can be achieved only by Sadhana or
> spiritual exercise and not by any other means. One has to avoid
spending
> precious time in useless pursuits. One has to be ever vigilant. One
has to
> engage the senses of perception and of action and the body in
congenial
but
> noble tasks which would keep them busy. There should be no chance for
thamas
> or sloth to creep in. And, every act must also promote the good of
others.
> While confining oneself to activities which reflect one's natural
duties
> (Swadharma), it is possible to sublimate them into Sadhana for the
body
and
> the senses.
>
> The third qualification with which one has to be equipped is Uparathi.
This
> implies a state of mind which is above and beyond all dualities such
as
joy
> and grief, liking and disliking, good and bad, praise and blame, which
> agitate and affect the common man. But, these universal experiences
can be
> overcome or negated by means of spiritual exercises or intellectual
inquiry.
> Man can escape from these opposites and dualities and attain balance
and
> stability. Uparathi can be achieved, if one is careful, while engaged
in
> day-to-day living, to avoid entanglement with and bondage to
differences
and
> distinctions. One should free oneself from identification with castes
like
> Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaisya and Sudra, or clans like Gotras, or
conditions
> like boyhood, youth, adult and old age, or genders like masculine and
> feminine. When he succeeds in discarding these and is firmly
established
in
> the Atmic Reality alone, he has really achieved Uparathi."
>
>
> From: ult-blr <ult_blr@vsnl.net>
> To: Ranganath Atreya <atreya@student.utdallas.edu>, Ranganath Atreya
> <oopunter@hotmail.com>, Mangala Ramprakash <keeptryst@hotmail.com>,
Mangala
> Ramprakash <mangalar@dardenarchitects.com>
> Subject: Fw: [bn-study] Man as (Manas) the thinker or Reflective
Being.
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:29:51 +0530
>
> Kumar,
>
> See the post below which is an excellent presentation on rational and
> intutive thinking, that rational thought and logic do not necessarily
lead
> to truth or reality ; it leads to error wjen the basic premises is
false.
>
> Appa.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "peter.m" <snowlion@btopenworld.com>
> To: <study@blavatsky.net>
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:48 PM
> Subject: [bn-study] Man as (Manas) the thinker or Reflective Being.
>
>
>
>
> I've been wondering about this notion that Man is a thinker, a
thinking
> being. At a glance this statement seems very straight forward. Many
people
> regard "thinking" as essentially a rational process best exemplified
by
the
> use of sound logic. Thus to say that Man is a thinker is to say that
humans
> are essentially rational logical beings. They may not always act that
way,
> it is argued, should their animal (kama-desire) nature have the upper
hand,
> but once they do it is logic and rationality which distinguishes man
from
> the other kingdoms of nature. This kind of thought certainly seems to
be
an
> attribute of the lower manas, and particularly the lower manas as it
is
> developing in this current sub race of the 5th root race. But that is
*all*
> it may be - one particular attribute, relatively recently developed
around
> the middle stages of our 5th Root Race.
>
> It seems to me that a key quality of Manas is not the ability to
think, as
> such, but the ability to reflect. We are able to reflect on the world
> around us (external) and the world within us (internal) and, most
> importantly, gain a sense of our relationship to both. The latter
being
> more about 'self consciousness'.
>
> Would it be better to say of Manas that it is our reflective nature.
A
> Manasic entity is a Reflective Being and what we currently define as
> 'thinking' is just one aspect, perhaps only a small aspect, of this
> 'Reflective Being' in action.
>
> We often use reflection to ascertain the truth of a matter. But this
may
> not include logic at all. For many of us realise that just because
> something is logical that does not mean it is true. Good logic is
merely
a
> process of a certain kind of thinking that conforms to certain rules.
>
> All humans have three 11 fingers.
> Socrates is a human.
> Therefore Socrates has 11 fingers.
>
> This is impeccable logic. Yet we sense something is obviously not
right!
> If the premise (the first line) is false then no matter how sound our
logic
> the results are also likely to be false. Most of us find ourselves
faced
> with more subtle arguments than the above. Many of them are
impeccable
and
> logically persuasive arguments about important matters in our lives,
> individual, social, and (inter)national... and yet intuitively we may
feel
> something is not right. Politicians in particular are keen to
persuade us
> to action of some kind or another based on very logical arguments.
> Sometimes we may later discover the premises on which those logical
> arguments were based turn out to be false.
>
> On the other hand, there are many things that evoke a sense of
rightness
in
> us, or strike us as profoundly true that do not appear logical at all.
For
> example, we may have heard about or read the passage from the Egyptian
Book
> of the Dead where the soul/heart of the dead person is weighed on the
scales
> in the Hall of Judgement before Osiris. A feather of Maat, the
goddess of
> truth and justice is placed on one side of the scales, against which
the
> heart of the defunct is weighed. As we reflect on such imagery and
mythic
> stories we may experience a deep sense of truth and rightness about
the
> process even though it is not quite logical.
>
> Or perhaps we have read a poem, just a line from Kabir, for example,
who
> comments on the irony of the world of spiritual seekers:
>
> "I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty."
>
> Quite often reflecting upon poetry, myth and metaphor, though not
logical,
> touches something within us in a very deep way. They evoke a sense of
truth
> and rightness that goes right to the heart of our being... sometimes
as if
> it is an 'awakening of the sleeping god within us' bringing a new or
renewed
> sense of purposefulness and self-awareness in our lives... In fact,
HPB
> writes:
>
> "Manas is Spiritual Self-Consciousness, in itself, and Divine
Consciousness
> when united with Buddhi..."(CW 12 630)
>
> The Reflective Being, or Mind, is not limited to rational thought
alone.
It
> is primarily a dynamic state of being, or 'point of awareness' and
> 'knowing'. Interestingly HPB relates this to the Way of Meditation:
>
> "Dhyan-Marga is the 'Path of Dhyana,' literally; or the Path of pure
> knowledge, of Paramartha or (Sanscrit) Svasamvedana 'the self-evident
or
> self-analysing reflection.'" (VOS III, Glossary note 18)
>
> Commenting on the term Paramarthasatya she also writes:
>
> "'Paramârtha' is self-consciousness in Sanskrit. Svasamvedana, or the
> 'self-analysing reflection'-from two words, parama (above everything)
and
> artha (comprehension), Satya meaning absolute true being, or Esse."
> (SD I48)
>
> So, to repeat the proposal made above...
>
> Manas, in essence, is our reflective nature. A Manasic entity is a
> Reflective Being and what we currently define as 'thinking' is just
one
> aspect, perhaps only a small aspect, of this 'Reflective Being' in
action.
>
> regards,
>
> Peter
>
>