Theos-Talk Archives (December 2003 Message tt00001)

Hallo Netemara and all of you,


My views are just views:

You have a different view than I have on the subject we email about.
To disagree is what happens. We are learning.
I know that you mean well and I think you know that I do so too.
I have read the Alice A. Bailey books more than one time and have been a
former member of a very pro-Bailey organisation.

Because of that - I offer the following method, which were used in the olden
days - although not via email.
Let us then exchange some emails (10-20 if needed) on the issue - and see if
any of us can convince the other
about what is the truth of the matter. I could be very fruitfull to all at
this place.
Agreed ? Do you accept the offer ?

I think the subject is important and deserves attention. Especially because
of the degree of involvement Lucis Trust
and other so-called branched Bailey groups has with the United Nations.


Let me now answer your email.

Netemara wrote:
"It is the Bailey trust which holds a great deal of influence over
the U.N. whether you realize this or not I don't know."

My answer:
Well, let us just suppose that this is true.
Then it is no wonder why they (U.N.) are so silent as they are about the
killing of a lot of muslims
these days. Without anyone saying anything or making any real protest I find
it all very problematic.

As an answer to the quoted Bailey view on the stated fact that Mohammedanism
was a hybrid offshoot
and no real religion when compared with Christianity -
Netemara wrote :
- "Yes, that's true based on my research about its foundation."

My answer:
I disagree. it is based on YOUR own research.
But others certainly have a quite different opintion than you and with good
reason.
If they have, have you then ever wondered why ?
Do you truely and honestly expect a muslim audience to fall for that opinion
of yours ?
Do you at all have a clue to why such a view is or could be false and why
Bailey wrote the words she did ?

Just because Blavatsky did'nt touch much upon that religion and culture for
obvious reasons - Bailey
saw it fitting to transform it into a "hybrid offshoot". I find this
distastefull.
And Baileys writings are one of the reasons why Blavatsky-related Theosophy
is where it is today.
Bailey has had success in damaging the TRUE theosophical cause (the wisdom
tradition) by for instance remarks like the one
we talk about here. But true, NO spiritual evolution happens without
resistence and opposition on this level of the seven scheme-a-s.
As it is written in the below Blavatsky didn't write much on the Middle
Eastern teachings because not many
scriptures were transleated at her time of writing. Even Mrs. Kingsford's
attempt on "Asclepios" has faults,
which Blavatsky also points out.

It is a wellknown and accepted fact, that even Blavatsky's version of The
Secret Doctrine was written with an western audience in mind.
(I am not alone in that view. Many later theosophists are agreeing to that.)
And still - you Netemara appearntly holds the view, that the Alice A. Bailey
writings are suited to a Middle Eastern audience !
Is that really honestly your view ?
I find such a view totally wrong.

I only stated my views in my previous email. What I know about the future is
a view - not a claim.
But if you think that about one billion Muslims will follow the teachings of
the "hybrid offshoot" - then I think you are way too far out.
Of course if you killed them, and then invaded the countries you might reach
success, but that is a very bad idea.


If you - really - want to learn, and are not too filled with emotion, then
read the below.

We have from the Secret Doctrine the following - which tells their tales on
the use of the English language and esoteric teachings:

1. The following has to do with Hermes - Pymander - Taken from Vol. 1, Page
288 THE SECRET DOCTRINE.:

"This is quite consistent with the Vedantic teaching. The leading thought is
Occult; and many are the passages in the Hermetic Fragments that belong
bodily to the Secret Doctrine.
The latter teaches that the whole universe is ruled by intelligent and
semi-intelligent Forces and Powers, as stated from the very beginning.
Christian Theology admits and even enforces belief in such, but makes an
arbitrary division and refers to them as "Angels" and "Devils." Science
denies the existence of such, and ridicules the very idea. Spiritualists
believe in the Spirits of the Dead, and, outside these, deny entirely any
other kind or class of invisible beings. The Occultists and Kabalists are
thus the only rational expounders of the ancient traditions, which have now
culminated in dogmatic faith on the one hand, and dogmatic denials on the
other. For, both belief and unbelief embrace but one small corner each of
the infinite horizons of spiritual and physical manifestations; and thus
both are right from


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

[[Vol. 1, Page]] 288 THE SECRET DOCTRINE.
their respective standpoints, and both are wrong in believing that they can
circumscribe the whole within their own special and narrow barriers; for -- 
they can never do so. In this respect Science, Theology, and even
Spiritualism show little more wisdom than the ostrich does, when it hides
its head in the sand at its feet, feeling sure that there can be thus
nothing beyond its own point of observation and the limited area occupied by
its foolish head.

As the only works now extant upon the subject under consideration within
reach of the profane of the Western "civilized" races are the
above-mentioned Hermetic Books, or rather Hermetic Fragments, we may
contrast them in the present case with the teachings of Esoteric philosophy.
To quote for this purpose from any other would be useless, since the public
knows nothing of the Chaldean works which are translated into Arabic and
preserved by some Sufi initiates. Therefore the "Definitions of Asclepios,"
as lately compiled and glossed by Mrs. A. Kingsford, F.T.S., some of which
sayings are in remarkable agreement with the Esoteric Eastern doctrine, have
to be resorted to for comparison. Though not a few passages show a strong
impression of some later Christian hand, yet on the whole the
characteristics of the genii* and gods are those of eastern teachings, while
concerning other things there are passages which differ widely in our
doctrines." ( http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-1-13.htm )



2. - Taken from Vol. 1, Page 269 THE SECRET DOCTRINE.:
"SUMMING UP.
"The History of Creation and of this world from its beginning up to the
present time is composed of seven chapters. The seventh chapter is not yet
written."
(T. Subba Row, Theosophist, 1881.)
THE first of these Seven chapters has been attempted and is now finished.
However incomplete and feeble as an exposition, it is, at any rate, an
approximation -- using the word in a mathematical sense -- to that which is
the oldest basis for all the subsequent Cosmogonies. The attempt to render
in a European tongue the grand panorama of the ever periodically recurring
Law -- impressed upon the plastic minds of the first races endowed with
Consciousness by those who reflected the same from the Universal Mind -- is
daring, for no human language, save the Sanskrit -- which is that of the
Gods -- can do so with any degree of adequacy. But the failures in this work
must be forgiven for the sake of the motive." ( [[Vol. 1, Page]] 269 THE
FIRST CHAPTER OF CREATION.)
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-1-13.htm (The ULT version is
similar on this issue.)

3. - Taken from Vol. 1, Page 299 THE SECRET DOCTRINE.:
"So much from the astronomical and cosmic standpoints viewed and expressed
in symbolical language -- which became in our last races theological and
dogmatic."

---

All that said, I think I agree with you, that the Alice A. Bailey books
today and through the last few decades have had a great pull on the
Newcomers minds -
the newcomers, which have begun their quest for knowledge and wisdom. Today
many can read intellectual books and do so. At Blavatskys time of writing it
was different. The intellectuals then was of a different background and was
not as many as today. The - "pull" is what is important. Because TS has not
experienced the same "pull". But the more wise among the Bailey's sometimes
later become members at one of the TS groups.

Even so the Brainwashing methodology wasn't related to then and neither at
Baileys time, when she was writing her books. The theories of brainwashing
and New Age - really first saw the light from 1950'ies and 1960'ies with
Flower Power (-- "peace and love" --- smile...) and the acceptance of the
science of psychology.

The difference of "believing" what you read and really "knowing by wisdom"
what you read are - huge. And many newcomers falls prey to this obstacle.
Because they are used to believeing and not knowing. Because of that the
Alice A. Bailey writings has had many followers of the - superficial kind.
Followers, which are not really interested in wisdom "Atma-Vidya", but who
are interested in - New Age, astral energies, social tribalism, or social
tea, talk and gossip.
They truely act like the Fox Mulder poster says "I want to believe". It is
so fitting a sentence, and can very well be related to the many newcomers at
the Bailey organisations.

They get attracted to various organisations and groups. One day it is the
local Bailey group. another day it is the local Hare Krishna, Gurdjieff or
Scientology etc.
They don't really know - how to learn, and at what group they really are
able to learn if at any of the mentioned.
The massmedias influence - today - on the newcomers minds are imense and
shouldn't be underestimated by any - theosophist or Bailey-ist.
The massmedias influence has to be related to when promoting - the wisdom
teachings - no matter what book one prefers to throw at the newcomer as a
sort of new pet-Bible.

That is why I find, that the Bailey books are not suited to the present
activities, which are going on in The Middle East.
Others says - great ! Bailey is cool - and that it is just the Shamballa
force which are doing its job destroying the Middle Eastern culture - i.e.
the Hybrid offshoot !
It is just justice - karma and what ever - which are happening, and that a
any muslim is a terrorist. And if not, he or she will problably be so
tomorrow - or else the children will. This is what is really going on in
some Bailey circles. Some readers might disagree. But facts are facts !

Because of these facts - I have a strong tendency to be carefull about
promoting the Bailey books as a pet-Bible to anyone.

I know, that Netemara has a quite different view than I am painting in the
above.
And I respect that as far as non-violence are followed. But there are limits
to what I want to promote - year 2003.

The "astral body" scheme appearnly invented by Blavatsky - has its origins
from the Perisa-India area of the Khwajagan Sufis (also called the Master
Sufis. Kwhajagan = Master). The sufis Naqshbandi Order are their ancestors.
These sufis are the followers of the Avatar doctrine of the master Khidr or
Kizr - also known as The Green Guide. (This figure are mentioned in the
Quran) !!!



What do you the reader think about all of this ???
I have done my best.

from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...



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