Theos-Talk Archives (November 2003 Message tt00083)

This is even better, Bill. 

You've pinned down the idea I have been trying to get across since I first 
came across Mauri's fixations on labels like esoteric, exoteric, karmic, 
mayavic, etc., etc., (and their self contradictory combinations) -- that never says 
anything directly to the theosophical ideas or concepts (so labeled in endless 
and meaningless redundancies) as they are being presented or being discussed. 

As you imply, Theosophy (or a rose) by any other name would still smell (and 
speak) the same. Maybe, that was the point I tried to make to Mauri in a kind 
of roundabout way -- by showing that whatever we call ourselves, or who we 
are, has nothing to do with the things or ideas we are talking about. And, 
labeling a theosophical theory, or concept as esoteric or exoteric, karmic or 
mayavic, or as said by someone in particular, has nothing to do with the meaning 
or usefulness (or lack of both) of what has been presented or is in discussion. 


Being obsessed with considering labels as being important, does nothing more 
than foul up the atmosphere of serious inquiry, and divert peoples minds from 
the really important ideas that need to be explored in much greater depth. 

What else is the value of these open forums that are based on particular 
theme's? If we want to increase our knowledge through any dialogue, isn't it 
better to present a direct opinion backed up by some sort of logic, whether right 
or wrong, so we can hear what the other guy has to say from his point of view? 


While it's nice to hear someone say they agree with you, I don't think that 
-- without critical confirmation -- warrants anything more than a grunt. And, 
if they say they disagree, what more can one answer except to ask, why? All 
the rest of the rambling in circular redundancies and speculative confusion 
does nothing to add to our understanding of the true nature of reality, or get us 
any closer to self realization... Which is the point of all this, isn't it? 

In that sense, however, I do take Mauri seriously, by trying to get him to 
come to some definite conclusions... And, at the same time I recognize that he 
doesn't take himself so seriously, and it tickles me to play with (and even 
provoke) him sometimes... As I also think he does with me -- since I have a 
feeling that he really, under all that speculative beating around the bush, wants 
to know (or at least, how to find) the truth. As for the intrinsic value of 
Mauri's views, I don't think I have any thoughts about that, since, judging from 
Mauri's speculations and qualifiers, I don't see that he has any definite or 
particular views... Which, in a way, is good -- since it leaves him open to 
accept or reject any view he chooses... Which is also bad -- since it leaves him 
(and anyone who tries to follow his ramblings) spinning in circles? 

So, while I think, with respect to my interpretations of theosophical 
metaphysics, that I am right in almost everything I say and idea I present (since 
behind it all lies a great deal of careful study and thought) -- the greatest gi
ft I could ever get is for someone to "prove" or show me, beyond a shadow of a 
doubt, where I may be wrong. To constantly change my views, each time someone 
proved me wrong -- is what I have been doing for the past 50 years -- mainly 
with skeptics, agnostics, or speculators like Mauri, who kept poking, 
chipping, and polishing around the edges of what I thought I knew. I guess that's why 
I keep getting sucked into these long and sometimes pointless commentaries 
with or about Mauri. (Although it can become a drag after a while, there's 
always hope that we all might learn something new. :-)

Actually, Mauri is a derivative of Maurice which is also a derivative of 
Maurer which is the Germanic word for mason or builder. Actually, HPB was a 
Friemaurer or Freemason* (and her real guru was a Chohan or builder who stood 
behind the Master Morya). Also, I am a direct descendant of Moses who was the 
first Mason (Kohane in Hebrew), and my father Murray (nee Mosher or Moses) was a 
33rd degree Freemason. So, maybe we all have a karmic connection. (I'm sure 
Mauri would be happy to hear that.:-)

Best wishes,

LHM 
*http://members.aol.com/dilloo/Blavapatent.html

In a message dated 11/07/03 1:12:55 AM, bill_meredith@earthlink.net writes:

>Very nice Mauri.
>. 
>Your last few letters to Lenny, Leon, Leonardo, Hermes, Len, L, etc, were
>clear enough invitations for us to examine "what IS in a name?" Even a name
>like "theosophy." Your feigned confusion as to who/what was the "essence"
>(read: esoteric) behind those various labels for what might essentially be
>one entity was very well done. Unfortunately, I doubt that Leon gave it a
>second thought, because I don't think Leon takes your writings seriously
>anymore (if he ever did). Probably Leon will sometimes admit that he
>doesn't know everything and could be wrong about the intrinsic value of
>your views.
>
>Either way, keep up the good effort, Mauri. (same root as Maurer isn't
>it?)
>
>:)
>
>
>
>
>
>Bill
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: "Mauri" <mhart@idirect.ca>
>
>To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
>
>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:54 PM
>
>Subject: Theos-World re Leon and "direct enough"
>
>
>
>//cut//