Theos-Talk Archives (May 2003 Message tt00163)

Saturday, May 17, 2003

Many thanks Dennis:

That adds considerably to my knowledge of the mysterious phrase,
as in ordinary language an "oblong" is not also a "square."

Very useful and interesting in the Masonic tradition.

Can you give some reference or location for the original report
made on the conversation between O. Annie Besant and W. Q.
Judge ?

1. Who made it (the report), and

2. was it recorded anywhere? or in any magazine or circular
?

"...some of the records of the Olcott/ Judge conversation when
Besant and
Olcott were planning to hold a trial of Judge, quote Judge saying
to
Olcott, a Masonic phrase which in essence asks for his help in
quashing the proceedings. It was something like, "Is there no
help for
the Widow's Son?"

Best wishes,

Dallas

======================


-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis K
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 4:27 PM
To:
Subject: Wes on Dallas and Judge


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel H. Caldwell"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 4:42 PM
Subject: Theos-World Wes on Dallas and Judge


Wes, you wrote:

"What might be open to interpretation would [be] Dallas' view
that
changes made by William Q. Judge to a work originally published
by
H.P. Blavatsky are acceptable. It really comes down to how one
views
their relationship, and what value we place on Mr. Judge's works.
HPB's writings contain a great many statements that indicate
quite
clearly that she held Judge in the highest regard. Since she
wrote

<Snip>>>


>Why change the phrase "thin oblong squares"?

=============================
Dennis K:


The Reason that Judge changed the phrase is that Judge (as well
as
Olcott) were Freemasons. The phrase is a Masonic phrase.

The Masons use the language of carpentry, and stone masonry to
illustrate -in a higher level- moral lessons. Is supposed to give
one's fellows a square deal, deal with them on the level, and so
forth. They use the individual tools of a stone mason to
illustrate a
higher purpose.

>From Ronayne's Hand Book of Freemasonry, Part one, originally
printed
in 1917, and reprinted by Health Research,
www.healthresearchbooks.com, concerning "Brotherhood", "..The
trowel
is an instrument made use of by operative Masons to spread the
cement
which unites the building into one common mass: but Free Masons
are
taught to make use of it for the more noble purpose of spreading
the
cement of brotherly love, ...", and so on. Page 253

The little book of SUNRISE, April/May 1996, special W. Q. Judge
issue,
notes that Judge and his father were quite interested in Masonry,
and
some of the records of the Olcott/ Judge conversation when
Besant and
Olcott were planning to hold a trial of Judge, quote Judge saying
to
Olcott, a Masonic phrase which in essence asks for his help in
quashing the proceedings. It was something like, "Is there no
help for
the Widow's Son?"

According to Ronayne, it is only to be used by one Mason to
another
seeking quarter, and would only be understood by another in the
fraternity.

The Oblong Square would be the ordinary building block, which
needed
to be true and square, and level, and all that. It would probably
be
considered bad karma if a stone mason were building a high wall
of
stone, and it toppled over on him because he had not paid
particular
attention to the individual stones being square.

In the story, which has Christian overtones, of Christ being the
stone
that the builders rejected, the one stone that was useful was the
one
that was not square, the Keystone (of the arch).

I have the feeling that Judge modified the phrase out of a sense
of
his oath to not reveal all of the Masonic teachings, and so left
out
part of the phrase, perhaps with the feeling that the phrase
would not
mean anything to the ordinary Theosophist anyway.

I don't recall seeing all of the original quote that the phrase
came
from, but I suspect that it had something to do with being
straight,
on the level, and giving one a square deal.

Dennis
==============================

PS This refers to:
>From Caldwell posting April 22 2003

"The original Precepts are engraved on thin oblongs.." (ULT
edition, VOICE OF THE SILENCE )

"In the Collected Writings of HPB we find an article by her
wherein we
discover that she has used the term OBLONG SQUARES before. So it
is
somewhat puzzling why this phrase should have been altered
(presumably
corrected?) in the ULT edition. . . . ."

-------------------------------

[DTB Where? What article? ]

-----------------------

"The words OBLONG SQUARE are italicised in the above article
which
suggests HPB wished to draw our attention to its special
significance. . . . ."

". . . . Clearly then, this is no mistake, no idle phrase or term
that HPB is using in the VOICE. So again, one might ask why
change
it in the VOICE OF THE SILENCE, why remove the word "squares" to
leave the phrase "thin oblongs"? For to do so is to delete
something
very important in the text, or so it seems to me. . . ."

". . . .Do we perhaps get a sense that this term OBLONG SQUARE is
an
important one, and should have remained untouched as HPB wrote it
in
her original VOICE OF THE SILENCE? . . . "
=====================================