Theos-Talk Archives (April 2003 Message tt00004)

Hi> Here is further comment. See below.
----- Original Message -----
From: "wry" <wry1111@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Wry on Blavatsky. Part Ten


> Hi.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Graphinc@aol.com>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Wry on Blavatsky. Part Ten
>
>
> > > >> Karma -- responsibility.
> > >> Reincarnation and immortality of the Ego -- the time needed to learn
> > >> everything.
> > >> Unity -- in all three essentials of being: Spirit, Mind and Matter.
> > >> And, their cooperation.
> > >> A Goal for existence -- becoming WISE.
> > >> Immortality -- for the thinking, living, inquiring SELF.
> > >> Space -- infinity in which we all have a place and a purpose of
being
> > >> Brotherhood and tolerance, cooperation and generosity -- virtues as
> > >> opposed to the selfishness and horror of vice and isolation.

WRY: In truth, the above material, which I understand is well meant, gives
me sorrow. (I know Dallas meant well and had good motivation when he wrote
it, but this is not enough. I guess the part about balancing spirit, mind
and matter, though there are some serious technical problems with the
supposed meaning of these terms and whether it is possible for a human
being, in his present condition of unawareness, to balance anything, is
worthy of enquiry., as one would want to strive to
balance different aspects and this subtly implies a kind of balancing of the
functions, which is of prime importance, in
any kind of spiritual development. The rest of this passage, the broad
generalizations, the platitudes, the jumping to conclusions, and especially
the filling in of sacred space with a kind of rhetorical fluff is highly
problematic, but maybe there is something I do not understand.

As far as the co-operation of spirit, mind and matter goes, aside from a
the perhaps implied meaning of balancing the functions,
it, these words are essentially meaningless. Assuming anyone even knows
what
Dallas is talking about and how to do this, and that he himself even knows,
or that Judge even knew, it is not possible for
ordinary man to balance different aspects of himself by this model, as he
does not know himself, nor has he the will to do this kind of balancing. On
the level of an ordinary man's daily existence, which involves functioning
in flickers of consciousness, what is called "spirit" does not manifest.
Ordinary man, no matter how many theosophy books or whatever else he has
read, functions in
the realm of the living dead, where intellectual-emotional complex of the
mechanical "thinker" is continuously being triggered into reactive
processes.
This is the ongoing, daily condition of the functioning of most, if not all,
of us, evidenced not only by the behavior of people on this list and other
theosophy lists, but everywhere.

The study of oneself pretending to be this or that can be very interesting.
Of course when I act AS IF I am someone and my friends go along with it,
this reinforces my fantasy and allows me to experiment. This is what little
children do and it is an important stage of development, but it is not the
same as mature adults interacting in and affecting the world. I personally
consider
myself to be as much of an authority on this subject as the next person, as
I, too, have done my share of pretending. No matter what you say about
"mind" and " matter", no matter how good it feels to say this, it still does
not translate into the functioning of any kind of "spirit" on this plane to
the extent that there is anything to balance. In order for there to be a
functioning of "mind" in relationship to what is called "matter" to the
extent that a spirit body of a human being is manifested, there would
already need to be a certain kind of balancing of the ordinary functioning,
(thought, feeling, motor etc.), which there is NOT, and also, "mind" would
need to function as a unit in relationship to the moving body as an object
that is "willed" in this or that direction. Furthermore, everything
which is or can be known to man is of a material quality. Therefore it would
be better to speak of material as having different DENSITIES and to study
the various combinations of these densities and how they interrelate. The
beginning of achieving any kind of balance at the same time as purifying
ones karmic stains is to approach the perceptual field without interpreting
it. This could be called the practice of meditation (which is not the same
as a living meditation, but at least a beginning). Since I cannot spend my
day sitting in a chair meditating, I need to find a way to bring this
practice into my daily activities and relationships as I am moving around.
Remember, movement is the key to everything, as I need to apply all
knowledge and understanding to myself as a moving object in order to affect
a conscious doing.

Maybe it is futile to attempt to explain these simple ideas to you and
others on this list and to enquire into these subjects with you and others
on here, but if you would like theosophy to be a more effective force in
leading to the establishment of a universal brotherhood, I suggest you or
someone attempt to open yourselves to enquiry. I am not approaching this
subject as any kind of authority and am here to learn, but I cannot ignore
hard core material which I have painstakingly verified time and time again,
and it is my duty not to struggle not only to perfect my own reason to an
objective grade, but to help others to do the same. Thank you for at least
making an effort to communicate with me. Sincerely, Wry.
> > >
> > >
> > >WRY: In one ear and out the other, as you do not know how to construct
> > >with material.
> >
> > Are you deaf? What has "constructing with material" to do with becoming
> > "wise" or having "virtues" and overcoming the "selfishness of vice and
> > isolation"? Doesn't the "cooperation of spirit-mind and matter" include
> > material substance? Where are you coming from? Is the material world,
as
> it
> > relates to you personally, your only interest? It seems to me that
working
> > with your mental and spiritual nature is far more important than (or is
> the
> > first step toward) "constructing with the material." Or, shouldn't they
> all
> > be considered together? Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?
> >
>
> WRY: I am going to be going into this in more detail, but your question
is
> so interesting that I would like to put out something for whoever is
> interested to think about over night. EVERYTHING about being wise is about
> knowing how to construct with material, as presenting material that
another
> human being can assimilate it into his functioning in a way that is
balanced
> is an act of love, which is always original and creative. To begin, it is
> important to engage the attention and then present something to do in such
a
> way that the person discovers it for himself. If anyone has ever done this
> for you, you will know what I am speaking of. This man is your true
brother.
> Every learning situation must be alive and uniquely constructed according
to
> the conditions and circumstances that actually exist, not those that one
> would like to exist or fantasies to exist. In order to do this, the lover
> needs to be able to see what is. The person who cannot see himself cannot
> see anything, as he will be using what comes in from the outside world,
> reflecting his own manifestations, as a filter. This means he will filter
> out the details that show him information about himself he cannot see. IF
I
> see this happening, with someone, though I am not necessarily saying this
is
> the case with anyone in particular, I have to tell him, but since I cannot
> tell him, I will need to show him. This is done by setting up the opposite
> of what he is doing and exaggerating the details. In order to respond, a
> void needs to be filled, the hole that is created by the excess of
> exaggeration. When this is filled in, there is learning, not by being
told,
> but by having experienced. One could say this is dishonest, but we must
bear
> in mind that in the original manifestation of whomever, a box was
"created"
> for ME, and I may have to make this hole to get out of it. I am not the
only
> one on here who has done this. Bill has done it for me. When he did I was
> glad. Maybe you are doing it, too.
>
> Material is the key to everything. There are many esoteric symbols for
> material. One of them is fruit, but you would have to investigate this
> deeply to see the profound significance. Of course the cooperation of
> spirit, mind-mind and matter" includes material, as everything is
material,
> but it is important to hone in on specifics as then a new meaning may
> appear. Examine my material carefully, as there will always be something
in
> there for he who seeks treasure. Without discrimination it is pointless to
> be whole, if this is even possible, as without the development of
> discrimination, one will only know how to speak in vague abstracts.which
> will never strike a certain inner chord. Remember, that to tune an
> instrument is never hit or miss, but very specific. I can think it is
tuned
> or say it is tuned, but unless it is actually finely tuned, the music will
> not affect me in my deepest inner recess.. Something to think about over
> night. Gotta go now. Wry
>
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