Theos-Talk Archives (March 2003 Message tt00401)

Dear Erica,

All your points are well taken. And, I agree that to be "enlightened" is to 
be like a child. But, even that child must eventually become an "Adept" -- 
if he/she is to be an effective Bodhisattva who is capable of "helping and 
teaching others (who are steeped in materialism and cannot see the forest for 
the trees).  

Therefore, what the ABC model teaches (in parallel with what HPB taught in 
the SD) is directed toward those coming "Magi's." Thus, as you pointed out, 
only the advanced student of theosophy, at a certain stage of development, 
can use that ABC model as a guide toward a fuller comprehension of the occult 
metaphysical mysteries and (through simultaneous practice of the "Heart 
Doctrine" teachings in the VOS) the achievement of "self realization" -- as 
well as to intuitively understand, and learn to benevolently apply the 
"psychical powers latent in Man." All that I have done is offer one more tool 
for those who are ready to select from -- according to their circumstance on 
their own wheel of karma. It can only be left for each of us to know for 
ourselves when we are so readied.

So, as you say, and I agree -- there are no single "models" that can help on 
the inner path of overcoming "Mara" -- that each one of us has to find and 
choose for ourselves.  

But, nevertheless, all models that are consistent with each other and with 
the theosophical (unconditioned, conditioned and absolute) realities, can be 
helpful at each appropriate stage of our journey along the way.  

Best wishes,

Leon    


In a message dated 03/14/03 10:42:46 AM, eletzerich@yahoo.com writes:

>Part II
>
>
>Dear Leon,
>
>I removed my previous comments and some of yours
>previous comments, otherwise was going to be very
>long. 
>
>Erica 
>
>Leon: Actually, intuition which includes immediate
>cognition, also means "knowing" since we define
>"cognition" as; "1. The mental process or faculty of
>knowing including aspects such as: awareness,
>perception, reasoning, and judgment. 
>2. That, which comes to be known, as through
>perception, reasoning, or intuition; knowledge."
>(Amer. Heritage Dict.) 
>
>Erica: Many can have intuition, but not necessarily
>awareness and comprehension of the intuition itself. 
>
>The definition of intuition in the dictionary, as
>immediate cognition, should be so applied for one that
>is far advanced on the path.     
>
>“He who would hear the voice of Nada (2), "the
>Soundless Sound," and comprehend it... H.P.B. Voice of
>the Silence
>
>Leon: this implies that cognition and comprehension or
>"knowing" are synonymous -- when one's intuition is
>awakened to Nada after merging the seven sounds.  
>Its' like seeing the pure white as the sum of all the
>colours of the rainbow. HPB might as well have
>entitled the book "The Picture of the Colourless" or
>"The Reality of the Emptiness." :-)
>
>Erica: Once more you confirm what I mentioned, this
>level of intuition is for those advanced on the path.
>But, intuition has many levels and forms of expression
>not necessarily followed by the full comprehension of
>it.
>
>Erica: We could name this “immediate cognition” as the
>soundless sound or the pathless path? But, if not
>followed by comprehension seems to be dangerous. 
>
>Leon: I don't know what you mean by dangerous. If one
>has "immediate cognition" through intuition -- that is
>the "pathless path" -- as well as full comprehension
>of the ultimate reality of the Spirit within oneself.
>That intuitive grasp of the reality of Spirit is the
>only way one can experience the "soundless sound" or
>the "colorless color."
>
>The experience of that state is also the awakening of
>oneself to the realization or consciousness of the
>higher Self. At which state one can commune directly
>with the source of all knowledge and wisdom. But the
>sounds, themselves, are only symbols of 
>the seven states of consciousness that one steps
>through to arrive at that final end.  
>
>Erica: 
>“The Chela is not only called to face all the latent
>evil propensities of his nature, but, in addition, the
>whole volume of maleficent power accumulated by the
>community and nation to which he belongs” H.P.B
>
>I would say the only way someone can experience “the
>soundless sound” is after to win the great battle with
>“Mara”. What I consider dangerous is that necessarily
>an inner journey is going to awaken our hidden fears,
>demons, it’s like to start trying to face Mara,
>without comprehending it.
>There is a saying: ”the worst sinners become the
>holiest saints”  
>
>Not only, the Mahatmas in their letters mention that
>many aspirants to Chela, have failed. 
>
>Why? May be because they believed to be ready to
>follow the path, but they succumb to the unknown and
>dormant aspects of the self, which necessarily is
>awaken during the process.  
>
>The level you mention above seems for me that one have
>already reached the third hall, wisdom. Do not say a
>very romantic point of view.
>
>See H.P.B’s statement below, about aspirants to
>chelaship:
>
>“One went bad in the head, recanted noble sentiments
>uttered but a few weeks previously, and became a
>member of a religion he had just scornfully and
>unanswerably proven false. 
>
>A second became a defaulter and absconded with his
>employer's money--the latter also a Theosophist. 
>
>A third gave himself up to gross debauchery, and
>confessed it with ineffectual sobs and tears, to his
>chosen Guru. 
>
>A fourth got entangled with a person of the other sex
>and fell out with his dearest and truest friends. 
>
>A fifth showed signs of mental aberration and was
>brought into Court upon charges of discreditable
>conduct. 
>
>A sixth shot himself to escape the consequences of
>criminality, on the verge of detection! 
>
>And so we might go on and on. All these were
>apparently sincere searchers after truth, and passed
>in the world for respectable persons. Externally, they
>were fairly eligible as candidates for Chelaship, as
>appearances go; but "within all was rottenness and
>dead men's bones." H.P.B
>
>As you see, it’s easy to say, but hard to try. I am
>speaking about a sincere try, not a self nourishment
>of the ego, and the creation of fantasies in the mind.
>
>Leon But, the VOS and the SD were written for those
>who are ready to comprehend the immediate cognition of
>their intuition. Those you speak of who's brains are
>defective, are that way as a result of their own karma
>and, therefore, are not yet "ready" to assimilate the
>higher knowledge. HPB spoke only to the intuition of
>initiated chelas who's karma gave them the 
>brains to comprehend what they could intuit through
>her writing. I doubt if any bipolar or attention
>deficit individual could possibly be capable of
>following the path laid down in the Voice, or the
>metaphysics taught in the SD.   
>
>Erica: About psychological problems, once I mentioned
>bipolarity, what science sees today as a mental
>disease, as epilepsy, and maniac depression ancient
>Greeks use to consider a blessing. 
>
>Plato was a bipolar, or maniac depressive. The brain
>seems to have some over activities and to give one the
>ability of immediate cognition, which very few have.
>
>The genetic reason of bipolarity is 30% more brain
>cells of the types of cells that transfer the
>information to the neuronios. Because the neuron can’t
>sort out the information a chemical unbalance happens
>and they have stages of depression, hypomania and
>mania. 
>
>But if the bipolarity manifests in a more advanced
>personality great results are going to be expressed,
>most of the artists and many philosophers have
>bipolarity. William Blake, Plato and many others. It
>seems to increase creativity and sensitivity as well. 
>
>On this I don’t agree with you, even Blavatsky’s
>personality could be seriously questioned in terms of
>psychology. Not only Krishnamurti in his personal life
>have expressed as well many gaps that could be
>psycologicaly questioned.
>
>It seems that those who are in the path, their
>personal behaviour breaks all the patterns of what is
>considered “normal”.
>
>Actually once the path is essential esoteric, changes
>in the psychological behaviour are expected, followed
>by many inner crisis. Above of all it’s an inner
>battle. There is no battle without conflicts and
>crisis. I think this is clear.
>
>To open the inner gates that conduces to the depths of
>human soul, is the first and maybe the most difficult
>step to overtake. To comprehend the soundless sound
>which of course is referred to the inner depths of the
>soul. 
> 
>Leon: Yes, but that's why so many are called and so
>few chosen. My comments, following directly on those
>made by HPB on this subject -- speak only to those
>capable of using their intuition to directly
>comprehend the inner depths of their souls. But,
>first, comes the basic knowledge of 
>what those inner gates are composed of, how to open
>them, and what they open into. 
>Thus the "keys" to those gates given in the SD (which
>can only be gotten through ones intuition) are as
>important as the meditations on the path.
>
>Erica: Well one capable to use his intuition to
>understand the inner depths of his soul, might be
>already enlightened. Nobody can knows what is behind
>his inner gates unless opens it. One can intuit but
>not comprehend it, now forgetting the semantic of
>intuition in the dictionary. 
>
>“No man or woman knows his or her moral strength until
>it is tried. Thousands go through life very
>respectably, because they were never put to the pinch”
>H.P.B
>
>Also in the article Chelas and Lay Chelas Blavatsky
>explains some “qualifications expected in a Chela”: 
>
>1. Perfect physical health; 
>
>2. Absolute mental and physical purity; 
>
>3. Unselfishness of purpose; universal charity; 
>
>pity for all animate beings; 
>
>4. Truthfulness and unswerving faith in the law of
>Karma, independent of any power in nature that could
>interfere: a law whose course is not to be obstructed
>by any agency, not to be caused to deviate by prayer
>or propitiatory exoteric ceremonies; 
>
>5. A courage undaunted in every emergency, even by
>peril to life; 
>
>6. An intuitional perception of one's being the
>vehicle of the manifested Avalokitesvara or Divine
>Atman (Spirit); 
>
>7. Calm indifference for, but a just appreciation of
>everything that constitutes the objective and
>transitory world, in its relation with, and to, the
>invisible regions
>
>About the 1, she mentions that there are some
>exceptions. 
>She refers of intuition, not as a comprehension but as
>a perception of Atman. So really I doubt someone can
>start trading the inner path knowing what is going to
>be behind every gate he or she opens. Perception not
>meaning full awareness and comprehension of atma’s
>nature.
>
>Leon: That comprehension arises the moment of
>intuition -- which is the "direct perception of
>ideas." But, yes, the journey is long and arduous --
>since one must overcome the ignorance one has about
>each level of one's inner fields of consciousness,
>step by step -- not to mention overcoming the karmic
>residues on each of those levels.  
>
>The pathless path is to make each stage a leap of
>intuition -- at which time that stage becomes fully
>comprehensible... And, thereby, that stage of
>ignorance is overcome -- so as to advance to the next
>stage.  
>
>The difficulty is (before awakening the intuition) not
>getting sidetracked by too much reasoning or
>speculations that sees all those thousand paths, and
>consequently becomes confused and frozen in place.  
>
>The process (for those avowed theosophists wishing to
>achieve enlightenment and in order to activate the
>intuition) is, first, the concentrated study of
>metaphysics as given in the SD. And then (or
>simultaneously) -- the meditation on what has been
>studied. The Voice of the Silence as well as the
>aphorisms of Patanjali, that aid in such meditation,
>are useless for 
>those avowed students -- without the knowledge of the
>Secret Doctrine -- 
>which in those Rajah yoga practices is always implied
>as their underlying basis.  
>Thus, the first step on each level, is overcoming the
>ignorance of what that level actually is, and how it
>relates to both one's inner and outer nature.  
>And, the ultimate practice of any avowed Chela
>intending to become an enlightened Adept -- includes
>all the seven yoga's that underlie in the Rajah yoga.
>
>Erica: No doubts the Raja Yoga and the Yoga sutra of
>Patanjali are of great importance, but they are
>meaningless unless practiced by someone that have
>already acquired the comprehension mentioned by H.P.B.
>in the Voice of the Silence.
>
>“He who would hear the voice of Nada (2), "the
>Soundless Sound," and comprehend it...
>
>If not the whole Indian would be enlightened right
>now, with their yoga practices and meditations, don’t
>you agree friend. 
>
>Any methodology seems to work and have real value only
>after a certain stage and this stage seems to be
>necessarily to face, but deeply:
>
>“The enemies which rise within the body,
>Hard to be overcome--the evil passions--
>Should manfully be fought; who conquers these Is equal
>to the conqueror of worlds. (xi, 32.)”
>  
>
>Leon Yes, But that inner path cannot be achieved fully
>and effectively (as a newly initiated student) without
>first overcoming one's ignorance of the metaphysical
>truths that underlie that path.  
>However, for one who in this life is already prepared
>(from past lives) to make the "leaps" of intuition,
>that awakens knowledge previously gained, the inner
>path can be much facilitated. 
>HPB taught that theosophy is a synthesis of science,
>religion and philosophy. So, the inner (religious)
>path is only one-third of 
>the way to full enlightenment.
>
>Erica: There is no way to overcome ignorance without
>to conquer the self, and to face inner battles. 
>
>Leon: That's why only the intuition of those who are
>ready can surmount these insufficiencies. But the
>first step of removing ignorance can come about by
>comprehending the fundamental truths taught in the
>Secret Doctrine.  
>
>Once students or chelas self determinatively decide to
>do this, and 
>thus, finds out the truth for themselves, they have in
>a sense, begun freeing themselves from their lower
>self.  
>
>Also, there is no real learning without dedicating
>oneself to such study.  
>And, once started, that study leads to meditation --
>which, in turn, leads to 
>the awakening of one's intuition, and then -- to full
>comprehension of what one has learned. Nobody said
>this is easy. :-)  
>
>Actually, there's no "killing" out of the self -- but
>just not allowing oneself to be governed by its
>ignorance... Since, when one's is "awakened" to the
>higher self -- one still needs to use the so "tamed"
>and self-controlled lower nature in the everyday
>activities of one's ordinary life.   
>
>Erica: Someone can’t have even a glimpse of the truth
>except have already started the great Battle with
>Mara. 
>
>Actually some of the most wise persons I ever meet
>they haven’t ever read a book. If we speak about truth
>it’s in a level that logic, can’t reach, no rational
>process can grasp, no book can transmit.
>
>Most the time results in intellectual learning and
>theoretical defence of point of views,
>crystallization. Don’t forget on the second hall,
>Learning, H.P.B mentions about the snakes hidden on
>the flowers.
>
>Leon How can one overcome ignorance without first
>learning and gaining wisdom in that order (or all at
>once)?  
>I like to think of the pathless path, 
>as being all paths, taken together, simultaneously. 
>How can any portion of 
>the path stand alone? How can any of our inner levels
>of consciousness stand alone?
>
>
>Erica: I wonder about it also. Maybe because ignorance
>is based on the absence of self-knowledge. 
>Every step also I believe is followed by a degree of
>knowledge and wisdom. But, only the serious and deep
>approach can give such results.
>
>Leon That's right. The problem is that they left out
>one leg of their three legged stool. So, they end up
>preaching instead of teaching.  
>Apropos, Moses couldn't have spoken to God until he
>had passed through all the initiations of his Hermetic
>teachings and alchemical practices as a Prince of
>Egypt, and studied all of nature while he wandered in
>the desert for forty years. And, then, in reality, he
>merely heard and spoke with the Voice in the
>Silence... His own Higher Self which is the Self of
>the all wise and knowledgeable Universal soul.
>
>Leon: Only after one reaches the highest level, can
>they turn around and speak directly using the proper
>words to answer anyone's questions at any level of
>their understanding.  
>That's why, the entire Secret Doctrine takes so many
>millions of words on thousands of pages to explain to
>everyone at every level. And, why so "many are called
>but so few are chosen."
>
>Erica: Few are those that can start the most hard
>path, and still fewer are those that are on the path
>and can stand it... 
>
>[Leon] Yes, That's why I see the SD and the other
>writings of HPB primarily as tools for the widespread
>self training of Adepts. Such open training was
>necessary at this time of the history of the
>Theosophical Movement... Since, the world's population
>had grown so large and so steeped in materialism --
>that the few adepts that could only be trained in the
>monasteries of 
>the past age would no longer be sufficient to keep
>their proportional numbers high enough to be effective
>as teachers and guides in this new age. 
>
>As we approach the inevitable collapse of this
>civilization, More and more of those newly trained
>adepts would be necessary to complete the work of the
>Movement. Imagine how far theosophy, and its
>teachings of karma and reincarnation have reached into
>the minds of the present mankind since HPB's time, and
>how many adepts might have been initiated through its
>teachings alone.  
>
>Even if only a few out of each thousands of students
>who have turned to theosophy had passed the seventh
>initiation -- that would account for a lot of adepts
>in the world today -- working quietly and waiting for
>their moment of need when our present materialistic
>civilization fails and falls into chaos. Who's to help
>guide those unenlightened ones who become lost when
>their world is pulled out from under them? Who's to
>teach the ever coming 6th sub racers who's heritage
>that new rising civilization will be?
>
>Erica: I agree with you, but don’t forget the so
>called new age movement is replete of minds that
>become more confused and the so called channelling
>that become fashion, and everybody, believes to be in
>contact with the masters. Poor souls immersed in a
>even worst chain of illusion.
>
>But dear friend you are very optimist, I mean seventh
>initiation, if one, only one soul inspired by the
>Theosophical movement have reached this initiation
>level will be a great achievement, but what we are
>doing now is speculation. 
>
>Erica: Weeping he wondered through unknown lands.
>Crossing the terrific gates of human egoism, he saw
>the secrets of the dark land
>It was a land of grief and fear, nourished by tears
>>From where love was banished and a smile never was
>seen (…)
>
>Leon: That's a clear allegorical study of the
>difficulties in facing one's own inner nature and
>feeling the karma of one's past egotistical actions as
>one makes the climb through the seven layers of ones
>inner nature.  
>But that facing of the "dweller on the threshold" and
>"crossing the abyss" is 
>the last stage of one's path to enlightenment. 
>Once those actions are realized and one experiences
>their causes and suffers their effects, can renounce
>them in the heart, and accepts forgiveness for those
>past sins -- they become transcended, and allow one to
>advance to the pure land of blissful enlightenment.   
>
>
>
>Erica: The only problem is that, there is no
>fundamental reality! Only models that are turned a
>part during an inner journey.
>It seems without this comprehension every try is going
>to be without success. There is a point into the human
>quest that words would not be enough to express what
>might be to give an infant step on those virgin lands
>of the inner self. 
>
>Leon: That's true for the run of the mill theosophists
>who are satisfied to learn that they are eternal,
>follow the path of altruism, and spend their good life
>resting on that belief.
>Erica: On an inner journey there is no patterns and
>models to be followed. Once for the traveller is
>stepping in one unknown land, how would be possible to
>have models for that? 
>
>Leon: But, for the prospective Adept, that is an
>entirely different story. They need the words and the
>models so that they can picture in their mind what is
>real and what is not real.  
>How else might they be effective magicians in this
>physical world when the time comes 
>for them to act as agents of the Masters in the work
>of the great plan for the salvation of humanity in the
>face of its current growth toward its inevitable 
>fall?  
>Erica: About the Adept I really don’t know, there are
>rules to be followed based on nature’s law and the
>Karmic Laws. This stage is after a long path, which I
>am sure very few have thread. 
>But remember the patterns and models we have got
>necessarily have to be turned a part, otherwise how
>can someone ‘reborn on the lands of the perfect ones?’
>Even the dead symbolism applied in so many religions
>and rituals makes reference for the inner patterns and
>models that have to be broken. 
>Also Jesus, remember what he said: “the kingdom of
>heaven belongs for the children” I don’t remember
>exactly the reference. The point is a child is not
>polluted with series of concepts, models, ideals and
>ideas, so this seems the best stage to start a real
>process of learning.
>
>Leon: And, how many might there be already working in
>the physical world around us -- whether as teachers,
>or as guides, or just waiting for their opportunities
>in whatever position they are in?
>The fundamental reality is all that together -- this
>physical world, the spiritual world, and all the
>worlds in between -- in a great metaphysical unity. 
>Could we comprehend that absolute triple unity without
>the millions of words and pictures laid down by HPB
>and the Masters?
>
>Erica: Of course the teachings are important and
>relevant, and they inspire and actually we are
>discussing about them right now. 
>The level I am speaking it’s more advanced than simply
>to read and have some inspiration, is for those who
>are starting or within an inner journey…
>
>Best Wishes,
>
>Erica Letzerich