Theos-Talk Archives (March 2003 Message tt00000)

Hi all of you,

The following are just my humble views:

Yes. Why not - relate - your debate to theosophical - core values ?
And why not use the good words, which good people has used, and not only the
bad ones ?

I could suggest to throw a parallel spiritually angled debate in - and
compare
the differences between young president Bush and Martin Luther King Jr.
My question is - how is it so, that USA has reached this moment i history ?
Why didn't USA listen to Martin Luther King Jr. - and why do so many today
support the young Bush and his friends policy ?
King and his friends non-violence movement and Kings speeches - is at least
something, which theosophy should be concerned about, - when putting USAs
present situation to debate - and considering spiritual actions in their
daily lifes.

I have in the below put some excerpts of Kings and young president Bush - so
one can compare their views. Well, it is to me an issue to meditate through,
so one can rethink ones position - spiritually.

1.
Here are again some excerpts of Kings words:

"I think the first reason that we should love our enemies, and I think this
is at the very center of Jesus' thinking, is this: that hate for hate only
intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. If I hit you and
you hit me and I hit you back and you hit me back and go on, you see, that
goes on ad infinitum. It just never ends. Somewhere somebody must have a
little sense, and that's the strong person. The strong person is the person
who can cut off the chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the
tragedy of hate, that it doesn't cut it off. It only intensifies the
existence of hate and evil in the universe. Somebody must have religion
enough and morality enough to cut it off, and inject within the very
structure of the universe that strong and powerful element of love."

Excerpted from "Loving Your Enemies", a sermon delivered on 17 November 1957
at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Ala. (full text)


"Now let me suggest first that if we are to have peace on earth, our
loyalties must become ecumenical rather that sectional. Our loyalties must
transcend our race, our tribe, our class, and our nation; and this means we
must develop a world perspective. No individual can live alone; no nation
can live alone, and as long as we try, the more we are going to have war in
this world. Now the judgement of God is upon us, and we must either learn to
live together as brothers or we are all going to perish together as fools."

Excerpted from "A Christmas Sermon on Peace", delivered on 24 December 1967
at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Ga.

-------
So is this also, what the young president Bush is preaching ?
No !

2.
Here are some excerpts of some of the young Bush statements:
"It is white." -George W. Bush, asked by a child in Britain what the White
House was like, July 19, 2001

Earlier, in his State of the Union address (i.e. 2003 - M. Sufilight), he
said, "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's
gift to humanity."

"The president when he speaks, speaks in a very inclusive way, very
respectful ... of the fact that we are a nation whose great strengths come
from the fact that we have people of so many faiths and people who have
chosen not to have any particular religious affiliation," Fleischer said.

In his State of the Union address, Bush reflected on the challenges facing
the nation as it prepares for possible war:
"We Americans have faith in ourselves, but not in ourselves alone. We do not
claim to know all the ways of providence, yet we can trust in them, placing
our confidence in the loving God behind all of life and all of history. May
he guide us now, and may God continue to bless the United States of
America."
("Bush talking more about religion"; CNN http://www.cnn.com/ ; Tuesday,
February 18, 2003 Posted: 4:37 PM EST (2137 GMT)

-------
"We're taking action against evil people. Because this great nation of many
religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith
practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil. This is
clearly a case of good versus evil, and make no mistake about it -- good
will prevail."
Remarks by the President George W. Bush at a Town Hall Meeting with Citizens
of Ontario
Ontario Convention Center, Ontario, California
January 5, 2002

"Ours is a war not against a religion, not against the Muslim faith. But
ours is a war against individuals who absolutely hate what America stands
for, and hate the freedom of the Czech Republic. And therefore, we must work
together to defend ourselves. And by remaining strong and united and tough,
we'll prevail."
Press Conference by President Bush and President Havel of Czech Republic
Prague Castle, Prague, Czech Republic
November 20, 2002
(http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ramadan/islam.html)

-------
Yes yes - "either you are with us or you are against u.s" and "spring in
Prague" and all...>:-)
There is no doubt, that I disagree so very much with young Mr. Bush his
friends, his rethoric - and his impatience. And I think King has an
important non-violent attitude, which should be be given importance in ones
daily life.
But how many of you reading this are really honestly prepared to - act
non-violent and follow a doctrine which is working in an opposite direction
of the young Bush and his friends ? And how many of your friends are
prepared ?

I hope this is helpfull and acceptable...>:-)

from
M. Sufilight with peace...




----- Original Message -----
From: <etvionbb@netvision.net.il>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>; <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World figures in history compared


> Good to see that at least one person has some sense on this list. Why to
> waste our precious love on the garbage of the world? Why a so called
> *spiritual site* turned out to be a haven for political discussion, abuse
> of other races and hate? Better off close it down. Love, Etzion
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Bart Lidofsky bartl@sprynet.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:39:46 -0500
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World figures in history compared
>
>
> nama_sivam wrote:
> > Hitler was a Beast
> > But Bush is lunatic
> > We can manage with a beast rather than lunatic
>
> What evidence do you have that Bush is a lunatic? Because he disagrees
> with you? Is everybody who disagrees with you a lunatic?
>
> Bart Lidofsky
>
>
>
>
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