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RE: Theos-World Re: : Wry on Blavatsky: Part Four

Feb 06, 2003 03:49 AM
by dalval14

Thursday, February 06, 2003

Thanks Katinka:

I agree, in this that I wrote to "Wry," I am not answering or
attempting to answer her many points.

I am simply trying to make things more peaceful and studious. Also
together to be more accurate and less vague.

Also thanks for the pointers on ECLECTIC THEOSOPHY -- I agree with
them and the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) is one of my favourite books.

Theurgy (see also ISIS UNVEILED) I know works, but I have abstained
from any attempt to use it, as I consider I ought not to.
Theoretically I understand it well.

Meditation, Samadhi, Turiya, are understood -- I consider them active
states of thought, deep thought and concentration. I believe it is
the attempt of MANAS (the Higher or BUDDHI-MANAS) to attempt to purify
and straighten out the thinking of LOWER MANAS or KAMA-MANAS ) In
that regard the purity of life has to be attained, and the control of
Kama is essential.

I am aware of the fact of the "INNER GOD -- ATMA -- the HIGHER SELF"
is an immortal and is within. A also agree that all beings of every
kind, high or low, visible or invisible, are potentially the same
immortal SELVES -- each at their own level of progress, and are due
the reverence and friendship any one can extend to them all the time.
They are the imperishable Monads that fill all space and ever interact

Intuition or the flow of truth and facts from BUDDHI-MANAS I believe H
P B recommended that it be carefully scrutinized with the active mind
and with the help of THEOSOPHY.

One ought to pay close attention to "hunches," "urges," etc... that
come and touch us gently with their constructive and brotherly

Ecstatic states appear to an observer as abstraction or deep
meditation. To the participant they are very intense meditative
activity with the body and the emotions (kama) entirely pacified and
held in control.

Again thanks,



-----Original Message-----
From: Katinka Hesselink <>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:17 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: : Wry on Blavatsky: Part Four

Hi Dallas,

Thanks for actually getting into details (or broad outlines) of what
she wrote. Sometimes it is far easier to just reply to the emotional
stuff and let the content of a discussion go to waste.

> I see no need to enter any meditative or contemplative "state," from
> which there is "no return" -- and I would add: that is NOT
> "spirituality," or any other kind of sound recommendation. Where
in H P B's writings did you encounter this?

> Are you referring to the reports that many mystics have made of
> experiencing "God?" Or something like that? Because, if so, this is
> known as a world-wide phenomena and quite frequent.
> Usually it is the experiencers who invariably return to ordinary
> consciousness, and then they speak of their mysterious experiences
> encounters. They also sound and speak as though they were
> with confusion -- and have met an (whether psychic, mystical, or
> spiritual) event that they are not quite equipped to handle
> as a memory.
> H P B cannot be isolated in this regard -- or do you have some
> references ?
> As far as I have been able to find, she never recommended "samadhi,"
> nor did she ever recommend anything but straightforward thinking
about anything offered.

Well, she also hoped that we would activate our intuition in this

> She did describe Samadhi in the same manner as the Hindus,
> Tibetans, Chinese, Japanese, and other systems of philosophy and
> religion described some of the practices used by some of their
> aspirants for spiritual knowledge.
> But H P B did not recommend them. In fact she sought to deter most
> those who might apply for information about practical disciplines.

Yes, but as a goal for the higher initiates, I do think samadhi or
something of the sort does come in. She wrote about this in The Key
to Theosophy:

>>  Eclectic Theosophy was divided under three heads: (1) Belief in
one absolute, incomprehensible and supreme Deity, or infinite
essence, which is the root of all nature, and of all that is, visible
and invisible. (2) Belief in man's eternal immortal nature, because,
being a radiation of the Universal Soul, it is of an identical
essence with it. (3) Theurgy, or "divine work," or producing a work
of gods; from theoi, "gods," and ergein, "to work." The term is very
old, but, as it belongs to the vocabulary of the MYSTERIES, was not
in popular use. It was a mystic belief - practically proven by
initiated adepts and priests - that, by making oneself as pure as
the incorporeal beings - i.e., by returning to one's pristine
purity of nature - man could move the gods to impart to him Divine
mysteries, and even cause them to become occasionally visible, either
subjectively or objectively. It was the transcendental aspect of what
is now called Spiritualism; but having been abused and misconceived
by the populace, it had come to be regarded by some as necromancy,
and was generally forbidden. A travestied practice of the theurgy of
Iamblichus lingers still in the ceremonial magic of some modern
Kabalists. Modern Theosophy avoids and rejects both these kinds of
magic and "necromancy" as being very dangerous. Real divine theurgy
requires an almost superhuman purity and holiness of life; otherwise
it degenerates into mediumship or black magic. The immediate
disciples of Ammonius Saccas, who was called Theodidaktos, "god-
taught" - such as Plotinus and his follower Porphyry - rejected
theurgy at first, but were finally reconciled to it through
Iamblichus, who wrote a work to that effect entitled "De Mysteriis,"
under the name of his own master, a famous Egyptian priest called
Abammon. Ammonius Saccas was the son of Christian parents, and,
having been repelled by dogmatic spiritualistic Christianity from his
childhood, became a Neo-Platonist, and like J. Boehme and other great
seers and mystics, is said to have had divine wisdom revealed to him
in dreams and visions. Hence his name of Theodidaktos. He resolved to
reconcile every system of religion, and by demonstrating their
identical origin to establish one universal creed based on ethics.
His life was so blameless and pure, his learning so profound and
vast, that several Church Fathers were his secret disciples. Clemens
Alexandrinus speaks very highly of him. Plotinus, the "St. John" of
Ammonius, was also a man universally respected and esteemed, and of
the most profound learning and integrity. When thirty-nine years of
age he accompanied the Roman Emperor Gordian and his army to the
East, to be instructed by the sages of Bactria and India. He had a
School of Philosophy in Rome. Porphyry, his disciple, whose real name
was Malek (a Hellenized Jew), collected all the writings of his
master. Porphyry was himself a great author, and gave an allegorical
interpretation to some parts of Homer's writings. The system of
meditation the Philaletheians resorted to was ecstacy, a system akin
to Indian Yoga practice. What is known of the Eclectic School is due
to Origen, Longinus, and Plotinus, the immediate disciples of
Ammonius - (Vide Eclectic Philos., by A. Wilder.) >> The Key to
Theosophy, p. 2-3 footnote) see:

Especially read the part on theurgy. I think the message is that
inner purity is necessary, but if that purity is reached (in
whichever way) then extatic states can have their place in the order
of things.


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