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HPB conversations on Occultism with Mr. Judge

Jan 02, 2003 05:14 PM
by dalval14

Part I


W. Q. Judge


In 1875, '76, '77 and '78 my intimacy with H.P.B. gave me many
opportunities for conversing with her on what we then called "Magic."
These useful, and for me very wonderful, occasions came about late at
night, and sometimes during the day. I was then in the habit of
calling on her in the daytime whenever I could get away from my
office. Many times I stayed in her flat for the purpose of hearing as
much and seeing
as much as I could. Later on, in 1884, I spent many weeks with her in
the Rue Notre Dame des Champs in Paris, sitting beside her day after
day and evening after evening; later still in 1888, being with her in
London, at Holland Park, I had a few more opportunities.

Some of what she said I publish here for the good of those who can
benefit by her words. Certainly no
greater practical occultist is known to this century: from that point
of view what she said will have a certain useful weight with some.


This terms was not in use at this time. The conversation was about
steps on the Path and returning here again. In answer to a question:

"Yes, you have been here and at this before. You were born with this
tendency, and in other lives have
met these persons [supposed Adept influences], and they are here to
see you for that reason."

Later, when definite terms had come into use, the question raised was
whether or not all stayed 1500 years in Devachan.

"Well, Judge, you must know well that under the philosophy we don't
all stay there so long. It varies with the character of each. A
thoroughly material thinker will emerge sooner than one who is a
spiritual philosopher and good. Besides, recollect that all workers
for the Lodge, no matter of what degree, are helped out of Devachan if
they themselves permit it. Your own ideas which you have stated, that
1500 years had not elapsed since you went into Devachan, is correct,
and that I tell is what Master himself tells me. So there you are."


In reply to a question on this she said:

"If you think Master is going to be always precipitating things, you
mistake. Yes, He can do it. But most of the precipitations are by
chelas who would seem to you almost Masters. I see His orders, and the
thoughts and words He wishes used, and I precipitate them in that
form; so does __ and one or two more."

"Well, what of Their handwritings?"

"Anything you write is your handwriting, but it is not your personal
handwriting, generally used and first learned if you assume or adopt
some form. Now you know that Masters' handwritings, peculiar and
personal to Themselves, are foreign both as to sound and form -Indian
sorts, in fact. So They adopted a form in English, and in that form I
precipitate Their messages as Their direction. Why B__ almost
caught me one day and nearly made a mess of it by shocking me. The
message has to be seen in the astral light in facsimile, and through
that astral matrix I precipitate the whole of it. It's different,
though, if Master sends me the paper and the message already done.
That's why I call these things 'psychological
tricks.' The sign of an objective wonder seemed to be required,
although a moment's thought will show it is not proof of anything but
occult ability. Many a medium has had precipitations before my
miserable self was heard of. But blessed is the one who wants no sign.
You have seen plenty of these things. Whey do want to ask me? Can't
you use your brain and intuition? I've sampled almost the whole
possible range of wonders for you. Let them use their brains and
intuition with the known facts and the theories


"Look here; here's a man who wants to know why the Masters don't
interpose at once and save his business. They don't seem to remember
what it means for a Master to use occult force. If you explode
gunpowder to split a rock you may knock down a house. There is a law
that if a White Magician uses his
occult power and equal amount of power may be used by the Black one.
Chemists invent powders for explosives and wicked men may use them.
You force yourself into Mater's presence and you take the consequences
of the immense forces around him playing on yourself. If you are weak
in character anywhere, the Black ones will use the disturbance by
directing the forces engendered to that spot and may compass your
ruin. It is so always. Pass the boundary that hedges in the occult
realm, and quick forces, new ones, dreadful ones, must be met. Then if
you are not strong you may become a wreck for that life. This is the
danger. This is one reason why Masters do not appear and do not act
directly very often, but nearly always by intermediate degrees. What
do you say,--"the dual forces in nature?" Precisely, that's just it;
and Theosophists should remember it."


"Now I'm not going to tell you about this. They are just; They embody
the Law and Compassion. Do not for an instant imagine that Masters are
going to come down on you for your failures and wrongs, if any. Karma
looks out for this. Masters' ethics are the highest. From the
standpoint of your question, They do not punish. Have I not told you
that, much as detractors have cast mud at Them, never will the Masters
impose punishment. I cannot see why such a question comes up. Karma
will do all the punishing that is necessary."


"It's a long time ago now that I told you this part would not be
explained. But I can tell you some things.
This one that you and Olcott used to call ___ can't see you unless I
let him. Now I will impress you upon it or him so that like a
photograph he will remember so far. But you can't make it obey you
until you know how to get the force directed. I'll send him to you and
let him make a bell."

[In a few days after this the proposed sign was given at a distance
from her, and a little bell was sounded in the air when I was talking
with a person not interested in Theosophy, and when I was three miles
away from H.P.B. On next seeing her she asked if ___ had been over and
sounded the bell, mentioning the exact day and time.]

"This one has no form in particular, but is more like a revolving mass
of air. But it is, all the same, quite
definite, as you know from what he has done. There are some classes
with forms of their own. The general division into fiery, airy,
earthy, and watery is pretty correct, but it will not cover all the
classes. There is not a single thing going on about us, no matter
what, the elementals are not concerned in, because they
constitute a necessary part of nature, just as important as the nerve
currents in your body. Why in storms you should see them how they move
about. Don't you remember what you told me about that lady___ who saw
them change and move about at that opera? It was due to her tendencies
and the general idea underlying the opera." [It was the opera of
Tristan and Isolde, by Wagner.-J] "In that case, as Isolde is Irish,
the whole ideas under it aroused a class of elementals peculiar to
that island and its traditions. That's a queer place, Judge, that
Ireland. It is packed full of a singular class of elementals; and, by
Jove! I see they even have emigrated in quite large numbers. Sometimes
one quite by accident rouses up some ancient system, say from Egypt;
that is the explanation of that singular astral noise which you said
reminded you of a sistrum being shaken; it was really objective. But,
my dear fellow, do you think I will give you a patent elemental
extractor? -not yet. Bulwer Lytton wrote very wisely, for him, on this

[Riding over in Central Park, New York.] "It is very interesting
here. I see a great number of Indians, and also their elementals, just
as real as you seem to be. They do not see us; they are all spooks.
look here, Judge, don't confound the magnetism escaping through your
skin with the gentle taps of supposed elementals who want a

[In W. 34th Street, New York. The first time she spoke to me of
elementals particularly, I having asked
her about her Spiritualism.-J.]

"It is nearly all done by elementals. Now I can make them tap anywhere
you like in this room. Select any place you wish." [I pointed to a
hard plaster wall-space free from objects.] "Now ask what you like
that can be answered by taps."

Q. What is my age? Taps: the correct number.

Q. How many in my house? Taps: right.

Q. How many months have I been in the city? Taps: correct.

Q. What number of minutes past the hour by my watch? Taps: right.

Q. How many keys on my ring? Taps: correct.

H.P.B. "Oh bosh! Let it stop. You won't get any more, for I have cut
it off. Try your best. They have no
sense; they got it all out of your own head, even the keys, for you
know inside how many keys are on the ring, though you don't remember;
but any how I could see into your pocket and count the number, and
then that tapper would give the right reply. There's something better
than all that magic nonsense."


In 1888 I was in London and wanted a paper, with about four sentences
written on it in purple ink, which I had left in America. I came down
to her room where B. Keightley was, and, not saying anything, sat down
opposite H.P.B. I thought: "If only she would get me back some way a
copy of that paper." She smiled at me, rose, went into her room, came
out at once, and in a moment handed me a piece of paper, passing it
right in front of Keightley. To my amazement it was a duplicate of my
paper, a facsimile.

I then asked her how she got it, and she replied: "I saw it in your
head and the rest was easy. You thought it very clearly. You know it
can be done; and it was needed." This was all done in about the time
it takes to read these descriptive sentences.

William Q. Judge

Path, April, 1894

U L T -- W Q J Articles I 417



[ see also Wachmeister REMINISCENCES, pp. 101-4, 146-150 W. Q.
Judge on H P B ]

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