Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00628)

Dec 20 2002

Dear Mauri:

That was a great answer. Enjoyed it.

Of course I generalize -- not to be vague, or to act the "preacher,"
but to capture all the outlying separative bits of meaning and put
them into one basket, (if possible.)

VIRTUE to me means very simply knowing and obeying the LAWS OF NATURE.
Since NATURE IS THE UNIVERSE, and also SPIRIT, the equation is to me
clear. Our Minds have (because they are free to do, or not to do)
creative power to modify, looking to future results and effects.

[Here are my main and continuing problems: One of the problems is the
dichotomy of evolution. Why did the ONE SPIRIT divide itself? Why
was "Matter" "created,' or drawn from out of itself (I mean the
SPIRIT) -- I wonder if it was for the purpose of having a mirror, or a
contrast? Did the SPIRIT want to know what IT was ? This goes way,
way back of course. How does PURE CONSCIOUSNESS know ITSELF, unless
for some purpose it can, and does, make such a division ? -- see
SECRET DOCTRINE II 176 -- old hymn from the Rig Veda: "Desire first
arose in IT ...discovered the bond that connects Entity with
Non-Entity." ]

These thought-decisions can be either selfish and limited in benefit,
or generalized, universalized and made harmonious with the grand sweep
of Nature's progress ( of which I sense I am inescapably a small
part).

VICE is to use this creative mind-power to seek to take advantage of
others; ignorance to acquire an undue advantage. It covers a wide
field. I sense the temptation of this power and ability, but I also
sense that NATURE ( the UNIVERSE) keeps a sensitive feeler (or an eye)
out for any such infraction by any one. The LAW OF HARMONY acts, and
we call it KARMA -- or getting the exact result of the force and power
we put into selfish actions coming directly sooner or later back to
us, to impale us with our own evil decisions. We then complain about
accidents, pain, suffering, disease, bad fortune, etc...

As I see it ( and theosophy teaches) Nature tries t tea us t do
better in choosing by letting us get the results of both good and evil
choosing back. We gets what we pays for.

No escapes. No "hiding places."

And that's about all.

many thanks

Best wishes for the seasons changes

Dal

PS and don't take "time off." I don't always understand what you are
seeking or driving at, but you sure are persistent and the questions
and "speculations" are useful. You ought to turn them into the story
of a search for meaning. It would make interesting reading. But who
is the "I" who conducts the search ? Is it seeking to know itself?
Are we back at the same starting point ?

===============

-----Original Message-----
From: Mauri
Sent:	Thursday, December 19, 2002 8:45 PM
To:
Subject:	Theos-World re recommendation that I take "time off"

Dallas wrote:


<<I think that one of the reasons why "spiritual
cultivation" is not mentioned as an object of the
THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT is that the SPIRIT
is innate -- is in all of us. It makes us INTELLIGENT and
offers us our CONSCIOUSNESS as a proof of its existence.>>


By "spiritual cultivation" I had in mind whatever it takes
individually for people to realize something or other (if in
"exoteric terms," say) about the apparent nature of their
innate/latent spirituality, aspects of which, during such as
"meditation," or whatever, might be tuned into "more
experientially," or "more directly" (if not "directly enough"?) ....


<<Why we don't see it is because we have obscured by
selfishness doubt, isolation, our personality through which it
would normally flow.>>


I've been speculating that such as "spirituality" might be
somewhat better off seen as transcending personality ...
although, of course, the words "spiritual personality" are often
used, (justifiably enough, in many cases?), apparently?


<<Do you think the world today represents the best that there
is? >>


To me, that sentence is made up of a series of generalizations of
the kind that the mainstream church people have been using for
ages. I'm trying to cultivate some kind of somewhat more
specific and more relevant (and more Theosophic) ways of
evaluating things. One might wonder about: "World today" in
what sense ..."Represents the best" in what sense ... "There is"
where, how, in what sense ...


<<Is VIRTUE easily found? if not WHY ?>>


Again, I tend to see various possible meanings for "VIRTUE"
and "easily found," so ... what can I say ...


<<But what is VIRTUE ?>>


I already asnwered that question from various angles in a
number of my previous posts. Maybe we all learn about
"virtue," whatever it is, as well as about so many other things,
at some point, in our various "own" ways, "for better or worse,"
as they say ...


<<What is dualism? It isn't possible to have that without a third
presence that is able to distinguish between singularity and the
"mirror image." Now what is that? Best wishes for 2003
Dal.>>>>


The meaning of Duality and Maya (as opposed to
Nonduality---maybe the caps help?), of the kind referred to by
the esoteric tradition and Tzongkhapa, Asanga, Blavatsky, etc,
is, in Mahayananic terms, as far as I can see, related to the kind
words and concepts that that kind of sentence, from you,
Dallas, represents (as per "third presence," "able to distinguish,"
"mirror image," and the like), although (of course?) manas
might choose variations on some "theme of duality/nonduality"
(as per "exoteric versions") and opt for the use of such as
"mayavicity," or "mayavic"...? Not that I know any more than
you, Dallas, about what "Nonduality" is from an experiential
standpoint. Apparently that's something that we find out about
when we get there?

Best wishes,

Mauri

PS Sorry, guys, for posting again so soon on Theos Talk after
that recommendation on Theos Talk that I take some time off
from Theos Talk. Here's a tip: If you really want me to take
some time off, how about not reading/responding to my posts?
That way I should get the message soon enough ... or eventually
at any rate, I think ... But (a word of warning here) what with
all the speculating I seem to be prone to, I'm liable to keep on
speculating even after being told to take a hike, or time off, or
whatever, so ... what can I say ... ^:-) ...

CUT