Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00432)

"Steve Stubbs " wrote:
> created out
> > of whole cloth, and Western Civilization and Christianity were
> designed
> > by the wealthy and powerful to oppress the poor and powerless.
> 
> That this is true has been tacitly admitted by the wealthy and
> powerful. Read Barruel's comments in which he frankly states his own
> motivations for taking the position he did. Yes, I know his take on
> everyone else's motives is wacky.

I think the evidence is that cultures evolved. The reason why the
wealthy and powerful became wealthy and powerful was because they took
advantage of the existing culture, rather than creating it. 

> In fairness, I don't think there is any numerically significant
> communist presence in states which lack a long feudal history.
> Because of their feudal past, communism is popular in Asia and Europe.

Freudian psychology has a similar problem. Freud was unaware of how
much psychology is based on environmental factors. 

That is also why the Frankfurt School, when it temporarily relocated to
Columbia University in New York, started focusing its efforts on the
United States, since it was a wonderful example of why Marx and Engels
were wrong. 

> > These ideas are the major guiding force of a highly influential
> sector
> > of the far left wing in the United States
> 
> Where did you find this? This is all new to me.

Consider the influence of the works of Frankfurt School members Erich
Fromm, Herbert Marcuse, and, to a lesser extent, Wilhelm Reich. If you
are unaware, I can do some research and pull up a bunch of cites.

As I mentioned (or at least implied), the influence of the Frankfurt
School on the Left in the United States is not out in the open, like the
influence of the Religious Right on the Right (as I DID mention, I
consider both influences to be damaging, if not equally, certainly on
the same order). 

> It is not obvious to right wingers but the Religious Right is the
> most dangerous politicl force in the US today, and one of their
> targets is religious minorities, especially Jews, but including
> Muslims and Theosophists as well. There have been articles in their
> press to that effect. The reason the RR shouild worry you (despite
> their right wing credentials) is that they have so damn many menbers
> and can cause presidents to tremble when they threaten to energize
> their bloc voting power.

The conservatives are, by and large, very aware of the dangers. The
whole reason why the Republican Party bosses tried to push W on the
American public was to reduce the influence of the Religious Right on
the Republican party. Unfortunately, the superior John McCain ran
against W, and W, at least partially, sold out to the Religious Right to
knock McCain out of the race. I personally liked both Bradley and McCain
far more than I liked either Bush or Gore (yes, if it were Bradley vs.
Bush, I would have voted for Bradley; I'm not as right wing as you might
think). 

> It is the philosophy of
> > the Frankfurt School in particular that George Orwell was writing
> about
> > in his novel, 1984.
> 
> Not true, Bart. Orwell was writing about Stalin's Russia and was
> kicked out of the British Labor party for not kissing Stalin's rear.
> The book was wrtten in 1948 and Orwell came up with the title by
> reversing the last two digits of 1948.

But the philosophies in 1984 were based on the philosophies of the
Frankfurt School, which was quite active in 1948. The Russian Communist
Party did eventually split away from the Frankfurt School, however. 

> statements like,
> > "The United States is a Christian country" make statements like,
> > "Scientific method is a thought-form pushed by Western culture for
> the
> > purpose of persecuting minorities."
> 
> Who said that? Is that what they are discussing at your study group
> in New York?

Join a skeptic's discussion group that admits non-skeptics. You'll hear
it all the time.

> That is probably true. Someone implied on this list that ULT members
> are trying to establish a single axis, but Theosophy incorporates
> many different opinions as well.

Ah yes. The thought process: If you believe A, then you must also
believe B, C, D, and E, even though B, C, D and E are not logical
resultants of A. Great way of shutting up opponents who are not willing
to be impolite.

Bart Lidofsky