Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00337)

Message 9568 of 9571 

From: <dalval14@e...> 
Date: Mon Dec 9, 2002 4:21 pm
Subject: Part MAHATMAS -- On H P B -- Her Positon

"This article is meant for members of the T.S...Those members who
believe that such beings as the Masters may exist must come to one of
two conclusions in regard to H.P.B.: either that she invented her
Masters, who therefore have no real existence, or that she did not
invent them but spoke in the names and by the orders of such beings."

>>>Here is a false dichotomy. By framing the issue in such simplistic 
either-or categories, other real options are ruled-out for 
consideration. This either-or framing ignores the possibility, or 
likelihood, that she did 'invent' the Masters as a literary devise, 
AND that the Masters were ALSO in fact based on very real (and 
fallible) living, mortal humans. 

>>>Often in life the true and relational nature of things can be 
realized only by understanding that things are seldom simply a matter 
of THIS-OR-THAT, but are more often a complex interaction of THIS-AND-
THAT. Instead of asserting that the Masters were completely 
fictional, OR that they were the Beings HPB claimed, there is a third 
probability, which is also compatible with all of the verifiable real-
world facts that are known in the case. 

"If we say she invented the Mahatmas, then, of course, as so often was
said by her, all that she has taught and written is the product of her
own brain, from which we would be bound to conclude that her position
on the roll of great and powerful persons must be higher than people
have been willing to place her."

>>> From this we can see that the debate was framed in these either-
or terms by HPB herself. 


"But I take it most of us believe in the truth of her statement that
she had those teachers whom she called Masters and that they are more
powerful beings than ordinary men."

>>>The Masters as extra-"ordinary" beings is asserted here. One 
could reject the fictitious claims made for the Masters and still 
accept that in mortal human terms, HPB's human prototypes for the 
Masters WERE extra-ordinary people. They were uniquely privileged 
and intelligent persons strategically located in time and place to 
create a unique synthesis of some Eastern and Western thought 
systems. The problem is not in acknowledging the giftedness of HPB 
and her Masters, it is in being required to accept the whole 
fictional package that they have been wrapped in. The problem is the 
basic lack of honesty and forth-rightness that pervades the entire 
Theosophical enterprise. However this can be understood as a 
pathology common to all secret societies and 'occult' brotherhoods 
that normally function under the cover of various forms of purposeful 
obscuration and deceit. 

>>>>This dishonesty is even addressed by the Theosophical Society 
Leaders themselves. Internal discussion of falsified Mahatma Letters 
runs throughout the early Theosophical Society documents. A lot of 
expert sophistry and word-jugglery is used to euphemize the obvious 
lying, cheating and deception that was going on in the organization. 



"There only remains...the position taken by some and without a
knowledge of the rules governing these matters, that chelas sometimes
write messages claimed to be from the Masters when they are not. this
is an artificial position not supportable by law or rule. It is due
to ignorance of what is and is not chelaship, and also to confusion
between grades in discipleship. It has been used as to H.P.B.

The false conclusion has first been made that an accepted chela of
high grade may become accustomed to dictation by the Master and then
may fall into the false pretense of giving something from himself and
pretending it is from the Master. It is impossible. The bond in her
case was not of such a character to be dealt with thus. One instance
of it would destroy the possibility of any more communication from the
teacher. It may be quite true that probationers now and then have
imagined themselves as ordered to say so and so, but that is not the
case of an accepted and high chela who is irrevocably pledged...This
idea, then, ought to be abandoned; it is absurd, contrary to law, to
rule, and to what must be the case when such relations are established
as existed between H.P.B. and her Masters."
W. Q. Judge
"Masters, Adepts, Teachers and Disciples" WQJ Art. II, p. 9

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/9568

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Bhakti Ananda Goswami's Conclusion

I am in general agreement with K. P. Johnson, and the propositions 
reagrding the Kashmiri Rajas, put forth on the Esoteric and Science 
News website.... 

"...some lineages within Sikhism combine both Hindu/ Buddhist and 
Sufi cosmological elements in a way that closely resembles the 
cosmology of HPB (see also the article about Theosophy and Ismaili on 
this web site). "

I SEE THE COGNITIVE DISSONANCE OR PHILOSOPHICAL TENSION IN THE 
THEOSOPHICAL THOUGHT SYSTEM AS BEING DUE TO AN ATTEMPT TO RECONCILE 
THE ABSOLUTE NOTHING ANATTA DOCTRINE OF SRI LANKAN THERAVADIN 
BUDDHISM, WITH BOTH THE THEISTIC/ PERSONAL AND ADVAITI/ IMPERSONAL 
BRAHMAN ELEMENTS IN THE MAHATMAS' KASHMIRI FUSION OF BON, TIBETAN, 
SUFI, VAISNAVA, SHAIVITE AND SIKH TEACHINGS. 

IF WE LOOK AT IT 'FORENSICALLY' THEN IT BREAKS IT DOWN LIKE THIS....

WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT WAS TAUGHT, WHAT IS THE EXTANT EVIDENCE TODAY ? 

WHEN DID CERTAIN THINGS OCCUR? WINDOWS OF OPPORTUNITY, 
SYNCHRONICITY WITH POSSIBLY RELATED 
EVENTS

WHERE WERE THE SCENES PLAYED OUT, CAN WE PLACE THE PLAYERS AT THE 
SCENE (s) OF THE 'CRIME' 

WHY THE MOTIVES OF THE PLAYERS MUST BE ANALYZED, PERSONAL, 
POLITICAL, RELIGIOUS..

WHO WERE THE PLAYERS, LIVING AND LITERARY AND IMAGINARY ?

HOW DID THE PLAYERS HAVE THE MEANS TO COMMIT THE ACTS ? WERE 
THERE THE NECCESSARY 
RESOURCES OF INTELLECT, MATERIALS AND SKILL AVAILABLE 
TO THEM ? 

ANALYZING ALL OF THE ABOVE, I HAVE CONCLUDED THAT MOTIVE, MEANS, 
OPPORTUNITY AND ALL OTHER REQUIREMENTS ARE SATISFIED BY THE EVIDENCE 
FOR AN INVOLVEMENT BETWEEN HPB AND THE KASHMIRI LEADERS AS POSTULATED 
IN THE POSTING ABOUT THE KASHMIRI MAHARAJAS. THIS WAS MY OWN 
INDEPENDENT CONCLUSION FROM THE INTERNAL EVIDENCE IN THE MAHATAMA 
LETTERS AND THE SECRET DOCTRINE, WHICH CONVINCED ME THAT THERE WAS A 
STRANGELY KASHMIRI MIX OF VAISHNAVA PURANIC AND OTHER DOCTRINES IN 
THE THEOSOPHICAL THOUGHT SYSTEM. THERE ARE SUFI-VAISHNAVA GROUPS IN 
KASHMIR, AND THE SIKHS THEMSELVES ARE A MUSLIM-VAISHNAVA HYBRID 
GROUP. THE SIKH GURU NANAK WAS TRADITIONALLY ASSOCIATED WITH MY OWN 
LINEAGE OF VAISHNAVISM, AND SIKHS WORSHIP AT VISHNU TEMPLES WHEN THEY 
ARE NOT NEAR THEIR OWN PLACES OF WORSHIP. THERE ARE VAISHNAVA-
MAHAYANA BUDDHIST, VAISHNAVA-BON AND VAISHNAVA-ZOROASTRIAN 
CONNECTIONS TOO, AND ALL OF THESE HYBRID GROUPS EXIST IN THE REGION 
OF JAMMU AND KASHMIR. 

WHAT
WHAT HAPPENED...A SYNTHESIS OF VARIOUS THOUGHT-SYSTEMS WAS FORMED 
WITH AN OBSCURE GENEALOGY. IT WAS DOCTRINALIZED AND PROMOTED BY AN 
ORGANIZATION FORMED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THE ORGANIZATION SUCCUMBED TO 
THE USUAL SCHISM DYNAMICS, AND OVER TIME THE FRACTIONS OF THE 
FRACTIONS OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SPLINTER GROUPS SATURATED THE ESOTERIC 
WORLD WITH THEIR INHERITED SYNTHESIS, AND THE SYNTHESIS BECAME A 
MOVEMENT.

[....THAT ORIGINAL SPIRITUALIST WESTERN ESOTERIC MOVEMENT, WHICH 
PICKED UP THE MAHATMAS AND EASTERN ELEMENTS, CAME WEST AGAIN AND 
BECAME EMBODIED IN COLONIAL ARYANISM. IN THE FIRST DECADES OF THE 
20TH CENTURY THE MOVEMENT GAINED STRENGTH AND DIFFUSED GLOBALLY. BY 
THE TIME OF THE THIRD REICH, IT HAD WIDESPREAD INFLUENCE. LATER IT 
MORPHED THROUGH THE NEW ERA OF FLIGHT INTO ANOTHER PSEUDO-SCIENCE 
REALM...THAT OF UFOLOGY. THE CHANNELED ENTITIES COULD NOW ALSO BE 
EXTRATERRESTRIALS. THE ROOT RACES THEORY COULD NOW BE EXPLAINED AS 
INVOLVING ALIEN CLONING OR DNA MANIPULATION PROJECTS. 'CONTACTEES' 
REPORTING WHAT ALIENS TAUGHT, MADE THEM ALL SOUND LIKE THEY WERE 
THEOSOPHISTS ! AFTER WWII THE ESOTERIC WORLD EXPLODED AND THE 
SECRET DOCTRINES WERE NOT SECRET AT ALL ANYMORE. THE NEW AGE 
MOVEMENT SPAWNED COUNTLESS LITTLE CHANNELING GROUPS, BROTHERHOODS, 
SOCIETIES, MASTER-MEDIUMS ETC. THOUSANDS OF RIDICULOUS BOOKS FLOODED 
THE WORLD WITH STORIES OF ATLANTIS, THE PYRAMIDS, LEMURIA, BENEVOLENT 
AND MALEVOLENT ALIENS, SUPERIOR ARYANS AND EVIL ZIONIST 
CONSPIRACIES.] 

WHEN
WHEN DID THIS ALL BEGIN ? THE TIME FRAME IS WELL KNOWN FROM HPB'S 
CAREER WITH CONJURING IN THE USA TO HER DEATH, AND THE FINAL 
CONTRIBUTIONS OF OLCOTT, BESANT AND LEADBETTER ETC. THIS ERA 
INCLUDED THE REIGN OF THE RIGHTLY SUSPECT KINGS OF KASHMIR, AND THE 
BRITISH, GERMAN AND RUSSIAN POLITICAL INTRIGUES FOR THE CONTROL OF 
THE INDIAN SUBCONTINENT. 

WHERE
WHERE? WE CAN PLACE ALL OF THE KEY PLAYERS IN EACH OTHERS' COMPANY IN 
THE SAME PLACES DURING THE RIGHT TIME-FRAMES. 

WHY
WHY ? THE PERSONAL AND POLITICAL MOTIVES ARE VERY CLEAR AND INVOLVE 
THE INTERNATIONAL AND INTERNAL NATIONAL POLITICAL STRUGGLES OF THE 
DAY THAT CONCERNED HPB AND FRIENDS. 


WHO
ALTHOUGH WE HAVE NOT YET FOUND AN ORIGINAL COPY OF THE STANZAS (I 
PERSONALLY DOUBT IF THERE WAS SUCH A TEXT) THE VAISHNAVA PURANAS AND 
OTHER SANSKRIT LITERATURE CLEARLY PLAYED A ROLE, AND THE OTHER VERY 
REAL PERSONS ARE QUITE WELL DOCUMENTED AS BEING INVOLVED WITH HPB AND 
HER NETWORK. 

HOW
THE PLAYERS HAD EVERYTHING AVAILABLE TO THEM TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR 
MISSION. THEY HAD THE INTELLIGENCE AND EDUCATION, THE ABILITY TO 
TRAVEL AND COMMUNICATE, TO WRITE, TO PUBLISH, TO ACCESS READING 
MATERIALS ( THE PURANAS ETC.) AND THE ASSOCIATION OF ROYALS AND 
LEARNED PERSONS. 


THUS MOTIVE MEANS AND OPPORTUNITY ARE ALL PROVIDED WHEN ONE FOCUSES 
ON THE KASHMIRI CONNECTIONS IN THE GENESIS OF THE THEOSOPHICAL 
SOCIETY. THE DIMINISHING INFLUENCE OF SRI LANKAN THERAVADIN 
BUDDHIST PURE-ANATTA DOCTRINES AND INCREASING PRESENCE OF SIKH AND 
VAISHNAVA OR VEDANTIC TEACHINGS INDICATES AN EVOLUTION OF 
THEOSOPHICAL THOUGHT OVER TIME. THERE WERE NO DOUBT MANY INFLUENCES 
ON HPB, AND IT SEEMS THAT THE INFLUENCE OF SOME SRI LANKAN THERAVADIN 
BUDDHISTS ON HPB MUST HAVE BEEN ECLIPSED BY THAT OF HER KASHMIRI 
MASTERS. REGARDING THE ADVAITI INFLUENCE, EVENTUAL REJECTION BY THE 
ARYA SAMAJ AND SUBBA ROW'S ADVAITAN GROUP SHOWS THAT THE THEOSOPHICAL 
THOUGHT SYSTEM WAS TOO ECLECTIC FOR THOSE GROUPS TO EMBRACE. 

IN CONCLUSION I FEEL A CONSENSUS HAS FORMED IN WHICH MY OWN 
PERSPECTIVE AGREES WITH THAT OF K. P. JOHNSON AND OTHERS REGARDING A 
KASHMIRI CONNECTION TO THE DOMINANT EASTERN INFLUENCE ON THE 
DEVELOPMENT OF HPB'S THEOSOPHY. AS A VAISHNAVA AWARE OF SOME OF THE 
STRANGE VAISHNAVA-RELATED GROUPS IN THE REGION OF KASHMIR, I CAN SEE 
THESE INFLUENCES IN THE VEDIC-VAISHNAVA RELATED SANSKRIT VOCABULARY 
AND TEXTS EMPLOYED BY THE MAHATMAS IN THEIR TEACHINGS, AND BY HPB 
IN "THE SECRET DOCTRINE". 

THIS KASHMIRI SYNTHESIS WITH WESTERN OCCULT TEACHINGS WAS WHAT THE 
THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY MAHATMAS AND HPB HAD MASTERED. THIS IS WHAT 
THEY WERE THE MASTERS OF. Case Closed.

Bhakti Ananda Goswami 

http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/stanzasofdz.html 

http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/invhindbuddh.html 

http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/secretd.html 

+4e(2-B)