Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00233)

A further note on this idea of maya, illusion and dilusion.

I mentioned that we are not free as long as our lives are governed by our karma. This might seem an impossible state. That is to be free in incarnation seems impossible if it is true that the only freedom is experienced by that which is the ONE or the Absolute.

I have no answer for this dilemma but history is peopled by some, relatively few beings ,who in comparison to us, seem free. Their decisions seem to be based in the welfare of others and live with little concern for their own welfare. My point is they seem un fooled by the great illusion of the masses who are working only for themselves. This would imply that separatism is one of the illusions which a profound belief in might create a state of delusion. (and perhaps success in our culture) 

Regarding karma and illusion, Mr. judge mentions that we should treat our karma as that which we have chosen. Even though we know it is obvious to us that we are ignorant of much of our karma's origination. 

I feel as if there is a power in this acceptance of responsibility. That may seem obvious, but if our responsibility has to do with the conviction that we are the cause of our own suffering (as the Buddha says) then we may look inward for answers, not outward. I don't feel as if it removes the maya or illusion of our separatism but I think it steers us away from the debilitation of the delusion of self importance and a sense of infallibility, which is so dangerous. In this sense, reality for us may be learning interdependence and basing a new found sense of duty on that.- Steve levey

P.S. Eldon-Thanks for your thoughts on Maya, they were provocative.


----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Levey
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 5:59 PM
To: theos talk
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Maya and Beyond

Just a thought regarding terms like delusion and illusion and there connection to maya. 

Theosophically, maya, similarly to Buddhist perspective, is an adjective which describes all that is "dependent". Therefore only the ONE (First Cause, Absolute, Ain Soph) is real and not dependent. 

This sense of dependence is an aspect of the Doctrine of "Dependent Origination" in Buddhism. It refers to all that is not self-sustaining or self-born. By default this implies a state of karmalessness, which is the case of those who have the power and freedom from illusion and delusion to cause their own births. Contrary to this, those who are born periodically and who are subservient to their karma, are "dependent". From what we have studied, very few are not subservient to their karma. 

However, we really have no idea who are and who are not born because of the consequences of their karma. 

But, those who are captives of illusion, and the belief that the illusion is truth or delusive, are not free and are not self-born.

This is all one way to look at this and of course there must be much more. but I have to leave.- Steve levey

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Stubbs
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 5:04 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World Re: Maya and Beyond

--- In theos-talk@y..., "M N S" <redrosarian@y...> wrote:
> It is my understanding that illusion has more of a mental quality 
to 
> it while delusion is the combination of illusion that has both a 
> mental and an emotional quality to it. I'm not sure if this is a 
> theosophical perspective.

It has been awhile since I took psychology 101, but The Great Moon 
Illusion is a perceptual foulup, whereas in the DSM IV the delusional 
disorders (a class of psychiatric disorders) are mental rather than 
perceptual. Delusional Disorder, Persecutory Type is the medical 
term for what most lay people call paranoia. (As when Woody Allen 
says that "paranoids have enemies, too.") So in psychology IL-lusion 
and DE-lusion do have different meanings. Maya is usually translated 
as IL-lusion, but I am not sure if the term includes DE-lusions as 
well or not.

Does anyone know?





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