Theos-Talk Archives (November 2002 Message tt00867)

Dallas-Thanks for the advice upon presenting my ideas. 
But, the attempt to prove or disprove a work (The Mahatma Letters) based in such a tirade can only make this student think that one is protesting too much. There is a lineage of concept, to which the author of said tirade on "What were they Masters of", has shown. He dismisses The Mahatma letters on the basis that they break with this lineage. I believe an over-reverence for such a lineage shows the need to have an allegiance to those minds which have attempted to hold the human mind in general in the locks of orthodoxy. We know that more blood has been shed over this than any other cause, as it is today. The Mahatmas carefully, as does HPB, presents a reverence for that great lineage none as the Guruparampara Chain.
The Mahatmas, mostly through HPB, have chosen carefully from such doctrines, amongst the forest of embellishments, to present to us what may be used well, and which verify a universal doctrine. This doctrine she calls the "Birth-right of Humanity". Whether or not one finds the truth in this must be based in each individual's capacity to activate these ideas with care and patience. This kind of process will end the "war in the breast" and that will bring peace in the "outer world". 
No, I am not overly judgmental of this gentlemen. I am simply defending the method which the Mahatmas have chosen and their right and in fact obligation to humanity to do so. However, the seeming fragmentation of their presentation is one good reason why the Mahatma Letters are not a good text book for study. As reminders of Them and the period in which they wrote, Yes, I agree, they hold that purpose.-Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: dalval14@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 3:02 AM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World RE: What Were They The Masters Of ? Parts III and IV together


Nov 26 2002
Re MAHATMA LETTERS
Dear Steven:

Thanks for this copy for me to see ?

It is easier to read if you could break up your message into
paragraphs, and make the breaks when you change observations or
subject. Do help.

I don't make it a practice of quoting much from the MAHATMA LETTERS,
as The SECRET DOCTRINE which came at the end of that correspondence in
1888, sums up the Theosophical position, and sets Mr Sinnett's
writings into their true perspective..

I would never attribute motives to others as we do not know what they
are. But we can ask questions.

I find the MAHATMA LETTERS is most valuable in assisting devotees, and
in setting the ethical and moral tone for aspirant We can all use
that for self-examination. But the results are of course kept private
as they concern ourselves only, as I see it..

Exactly how things were, in H P B's time we can only guess at.

I think you are right in the matter of the goals of those who follow
the "eye" or the "heart" doctrines.

Best wishes,

Dallas

=================



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Levey [mailto:levey_steven@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 12:41 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World What Were They The Masters Of ? Parts III and
IV together

Dear Sir-It is clear to me that your eruditneness regarding the
lineage of
these things is profound, and far beyond me as a student. But, I have
something to say because I believe there are other perspectives (at
least
0ne) to take regarding the Mahatmas that are as self-validating to
this
student as your learned perspective is to you. I was a member of the
T.S 30
years ago and after a short stay of a couple of years, I joined the
United
Lodge of Theosophists. As a student of ancient wisdom in general I
developed
a focus upon the concept of Mahatmas, primarily because the concept of
Masters of Wisdom as brothers and sincere spiritual human beings who
became
what they are through their own self-devised effort, is very
motivating. And
that is how they are characterized in true Theosophical writings. Now,
you
may feel, that becoming "what they are" is erroneous and therefore
should
certainly not be emulated. And, it seems, your decision would be made
based
upon what you have perused of the "Mahatma Letters". Frankly I would
and
actually felt similarly, if they were all I was steering my studies
by. My
study and the closest students within my circle of study feel as if
they
(The Mahatma Letters)are nearly impossible to use since their context
or
focus seemed to be to individual students. They are valid as
productions of
the beings attributed to, but their subject matter seemed to be
limited to
the student on the original receiving end. Therefore, and as such,
they
should never have been published to a general audience. I read them
when
they came my way as a member of the T.S. At that time, as I do when I
read
something difficult to characterize or to practically use, I put them
on a
"back burner", so to speak. Upon spending many years studying HPB's
The
Secret Doctrine along with her collective writings as well as William
Quan
Judge's, Robert Crosbie, and others, it became clear to me that
students who
flaunt knowledge of the Mahatma Letters are doing so for some
egocentric
purpose. Why? Because when you place what the Mahatmas have said in
the
context in which they are placed in thoughtful writings aimed at
giving the
student as much context as possible in which to understand their
wisdom, one
might learn something useful. Otherwise, the Mahatma Letters stand
only as
an enigma. Real, but rather practically useless. Those in HPB's direct
lineage, which leaves out many, if not most writers in the
Theosophical
Society, who have received further instruction from the Lodge of
Mahatmas,
have never given a collection of the Mahatma letters to be printed.
They
have ALWAYS been excerpted and put in the context of principled
ideation
regarding a subject matter in discussion. Why excerpted? Because it is
clear
to students of the Wisdom religion, that the Chelas of Mahatmas are
given
instructions as to how the wisdom of the Teacher will be used. This
trust is
beyond question amongst those so chosen. In fact that is part and
parcel of
the Teacher-Disciple relationship. None the less, each student is
implored
to study on their own and to draw their own conclusions.
Perhaps, more importantly, is the ideal of putting to work the
best
ethical thought, word and deed that one can. The great Paramitas are
most
always overlooked by the phenomena addicted student. This great
ethical
teaching is pronounced by HPB and Her Teachers as the paramount motive
behind the Theosophical Movement. This is true now and I know it was
true in
HPB's day. And discussion of high beings and their powers are a
terrible
trap. AS can be the trap of high erudition because it can become an
end in
itself. The path which it uncovers may seem not as "tasty" to the
mind, as
the nearly tactile feeling of accruing knowledge, which leaves the
mystically
inclined, ethical student within, simply ignored. The becoming of the
Pratyeka Buddha is at the crown of this while the Nirmanakaya is the
product
of the practice of the Heart Doctrine. These choices need to be made
and one
is making them by our inclinations whether we know it or not. A good
thing I
say. Sincerely-Steven Levey





_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]