Theos-Talk Archives (November 2002 Message tt00208)

This is a fabulous synopsis. We never used their original names but 
were always referred to as Maharaji this one or that one. Hence the 
confusion in my mind. 

We had a detailed discussion on Neil Tessler's forum, until he 
deleted it that is, regarding the use and/or promotion of pranayama 
in terms of it as a means of spiritual progress. We never did come to 
a conclusion about it. But I posted the differences here as you cite: 
that we (they) may be talking about two different things. Also RSSB 
denies the use of the 7 centers in terms of progress. We were to 
start at the eye center and to go up from there. The centers below 
this were NOT to be used. In fact we know well the dangers of 
slipping into the throat center as one would fall instantly fast 
asleep!

Thus you have perhaps the modern bridge between discarding the old 
ways of Yoga, Raja Yoga and Jnani yoga withstanding, and replacing 
them with the use of Surap Shabd Yoga which eschews all talk of and 
use of the centers, prana, kundalini and various and sundry siddhas. 
Okay, this is the crux of many an argument. Did these masters not 
talk about kundalini and the like because they did not know a damn 
thing about them? Or because they were keeping their followers safe 
and in line with devotion and the spiritual practices which included 
Dyhan? Okay where did Dyhan come from in which one is to visualize 
the face of the master? You did not mention it.

Thanks 

Netemara

****************


-- In theos-talk@y..., "Daniel H. Caldwell" <comments@b...> wrote:
> Notes on Rai Salig Ram, Shiva Dayal Singh, etc.
> 
> by Daniel H. Caldwell
> http://hpb.cc
> 
> In the latter part of 1883, A.P. Sinnett, a well-known Theosophist, 
> wrote about a deceased seer who had lived at Agra, India and one of 
> his followers then living in Allahabad, India:
> 
> ". . . up to within a few years ago, a very highly spiritualised 
> ascetic and gifted seer [Shiv Dayal Singh, the acknowledged 
> founder of Radhasoami] was living at Agra, where he taught a group 
of 
> disciples and by their own statement has frequently re-appeared 
> amongst them since his death. This event itself was an effort of 
will 
> accomplished at an appointed time. I have heard a good deal about 
him 
> from one [Rai Salig Ram] of his principal followers, a cultivated 
and 
> highly respected native Government official, now living at 
> Allahabad. . . . " Quoted from Sinnett's article titled " 'The 
> Brothers' of Theosophy", LIGHT (London), December 22, 1883, pp. 
557. 
> 
> Dayal Singh died in Agra in 1878.
> 
> Earlier in 1883, Sinnett had given more information about Dayal 
Singh 
> and Salig Ram in his book ESOTERIC BUDDHISM:
> 
> ". . . I know one native [Rai Salig Ram] of India, for example, a 
man 
> of European education, holding a high appointment under Government, 
> of good station in society, most elevated character, and enjoying 
> unusual respect with such Europeans as are concerned with him in 
> official life, who will only accord to the Brothers of Tibet a 
second 
> place in the world of spiritual enlightenment. The first place he 
> regards as occupied by one person [Shiv Dayal Singh, the 
acknowledged 
> founder of Radhasoami], now in this world no longer --- his own 
> occult master in life --- whom he resolutely asserts to have been 
an 
> incarnation of the Supreme Being. His own (my friend's) inner 
senses 
> were so far awakened by this Master, that the visions of his 
> entranced state, into which he can throw himself at will, are to 
him 
> the only spiritual region in which he can feel interested.  
Convinced 
> that the Supreme Being was his personal instructor from the 
> beginning, he is naturally inaccessible to suggestions [as given in 
> Mahatma Letter No. 40] that his impressions may be distorted by 
> reason of his own misdirected psychological development. . . . "  
> Quoted from Sinnett's book titled ESOTERIC BUDDHISM, 1st ed., June 
> 1883, p. 9-10.
> 
> According to S. D. Maheshwari, "On the 28th April, 1881, he [ Rai 
> Salig Ram] had the unique honor of being the first Indian to be 
made 
> the Postmaster General of the North Western Frontier 
> Provinces. . . . " BIOGRAPHY OF HUZUR MAHARAJ [Rai Salig Ram], by 
> S.D. Maheshwari, p. 62
> 
> It would appear that in the latter part of 1881, Sinnett had met 
Rai 
> Salig Ram in Allahabad. Salig Ram told Sinnett about his deceased 
> guru Shiv Dayal Singh. Sinnett, who was at the same time in 
> correspondence with Madame Blavatsky's teachers, wrote to Master 
> Morya inquiring about Shiv Dayal Singh, Rai Salig Ram and their 
> claims. Master Morya answered Sinnett's queries as follows:
> 
> ". . . Suby Ram [Rai Salig Ram] -- a truly good man -- yet a 
devotee 
> of another error. Not his guru's voice -- his own. The voice of a 
> pure, unselfish, earnest soul, absorbed in misguided, misdirected 
> mysticism. Add to it a chronic disorder in that portion of the 
brain 
> which responds to clear vision and the secret is soon told: that 
> disorder was developed by forced visions; by hatha yog and 
prolonged 
> asceticism. S. Ram is the chief medium and at same time the 
principal 
> magnetic factor, who spreads his disease by infection -- 
> unconsciously to himself; who innoculates with his vision all the 
> other disciples. There is one general law of vision (physical and 
> mental or spiritual) but there is a qualifying special law proving 
> that all vision must be determined by the quality or grade of man's 
> spirit and soul, and also by the ability to translate divers 
> qualities of waves of astral light into consciousness. There is but 
> one general law of life, but innumerable laws qualify and determine 
> the myriads of forms perceived and of sounds heard. There are those 
> who are willingly and others who are unwillingly -- blind. Mediums 
> belong to the former, sensitives to the latter. Unless regularly 
> initiated and trained -- concerning the spiritual insight of things 
> and the supposed revelations made unto man in all ages from 
Socrates 
> down to Swedenborg and 'Fern' -- no self-tutored seer or 
clairaudient 
> ever saw or heard quite correctly."
> 
> "No harm and much instruction may come to you by joining his 
> [Radhasoami] Society. Go on until he demands what you will be 
obliged 
> to refuse. Learn and study. You are right: they [Salig Ram and his 
> devotees] say and affirm that the one and only God of the Universe 
> was incarnated in their guru [Shiv Dayal Singh, the acknowledged 
> founder of Radhasoami], and were such an individual to exist he 
would 
> certainly be higher than any 'planetary.' But they are idolators, 
my 
> friend. Their guru was no initiate only a man of extraordinary 
purity 
> of life and powers of endurance. He had never consented to give up 
> his notions of a personal god and even gods though offered more 
than 
> once. He was born an orthodox Hindu and died a self-reformed Hindu, 
> something like Kechub-Ch-Sen but higher purer and with no ambition 
to 
> taint his bright soul. Many of us have regretted his self-delusion 
> but he was too good to be forcibly interfered with. Join them and 
> learn -- but remember your sacred promise to K.H. . . . M."
> Mahatma Letter No. 40
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-40.htm
> 
> Concerning Morya's comment that Rai Salig Ram had "a chronic 
disorder 
> in that portion of the brain which responds to clear vision and the 
> secret is soon told: that disorder was developed by forced 
visions; 
> by hatha yog and prolonged asceticism." 
> 
> Compare this with what Prof. A.P. Mathur writes about Rai Salig Ram:
> 
> "Huzur Maharaj [Rai Salig Ram] has criticized the various forms of 
> yoga prevalent in the country since the days of yore . He discards 
> hathyoga as a purely external exercise which, instead of generating 
> love for the Supreme Being, gives rise to pride and conceit. It is 
> devoid of any spiritual benefit. Discussing the practice of 
pranayam, 
> he says that it is difficult to perform it in the modern age. Its 
> ancillary observances are so hazardous that a slight lapse or 
neglect 
> may result in serious illness or even death. Huzur Maharaj holds 
that 
> even ascetics find themselves incapable of practising pranayam. For 
> persons leading a family life, it is impossible to achieve any 
> success. He further asserts that even if it is correctly and 
> successfully performed, it will not lead to true salvation, because 
> its gains are limited to the region of Brahmand." Quoted from:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9563/chapter4.html
> 
> Regardless of what Mathur writes above, it has been documented that 
> earlier in life, Rai Salig Ram had practised pranayama.
> See Radhasoami Reality: The Logic of a Modern Faith by Mark 
> Juergensmeyer.
> 
> Compare the above with what Master KH writes about another person 
who 
> had practised pranayama:
> 
> ". . . he has nevertheless, by the injudicious practice of 
pranayam, 
> developed in himself to some extent mediumship --- IS TAINTED FOR 
> LIFE WITH IT." caps added. quoted from:
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-56.htm
> 
> Compare this again with what is given in Volume III of THE SECRET 
> DOCTRINE, p. 502:
> 
> "Now, the science of Hatha Yoga rests upon the 'suppression of 
> breath,' or Prânâyâma? . . . Prâna, as said, is not
> Jîva, the eternal 
> fount of life immortal; nor is it connected in any way with 
Pranava, 
> as some think, for Pranava is a synonym of AUM in a mystic sense. 
As 
> much as has ever been taught publicly and clearly about it is to be 
> found in Nature's Finer Forces. If such directions, however, are 
> followed, they can only lead to Black Magic and mediumship. . . . 
The 
> science of the Five Breaths, the moist, the fiery, the airy, etc., 
> has a twofold significance and two applications. The Tântrikas
> take it literally, as relating to the regulation of the vital, lung 
> breath, whereas the ancient Râja Yogîs understood it as
> referring to the mental or 'will' breath, which alone leads to the 
> highest clairvoyant powers, to the function of the Third Eye, and 
the 
> acquisition of the true Râja Yoga Occult powers. The difference 
> between the two is enormous." 
> 
> 
> ADDITIONAL NOTES:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Encyclopædia Britannica says the following about Radhasoami
> religious movement:
> 
> "Radha Soami Satsang . . . also called Radhasvami Satsang,  
esoteric 
> religious sect of India that has followers among both Hindus and 
> Sikhs. The sect was founded in 1861 by Siva Dayal Saheb [Shiva 
Dayal 
> Singh] (also called Sivdayal), a Hindu banker of Agra, who believed 
> that human beings could perfect their highest capabilities only 
> through repetition of the sabd ('sound'), or nam ('name'), of the 
> Lord. Radha soami signifies the union of the soul with God, the 
name 
> of God, and the sound heard internally that emanates from God. 
Great 
> emphasis is placed on the 'congregation of truthful people,' the 
> satsang." 
> 
> "On the death of Siva Dayal Saheb, the Radha Soami sect split into 
> two factions. The main group remained [under the leadership or 
> guruship of Rai Salig Ram] at Agra. The other branch was started by 
a 
> Sikh disciple of Siva Dayal Saheb named Jaimal Singh. Members of 
this 
> latter group are known as the Radha Soamis of Beas, because they 
have 
> their headquarters on the bank of the Beas River, near Amritsar."
> 
> Quoted from: "Radha Soami Satsang" Encyclopædia Britannica 
> <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=63974>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> SHIV DAYAL SINGH 
> "Soamiji Maharaj" 
> Ministry Dates: Mid-1850's to 1878. 
> Guru: Tulsi Sahib of Hathras (according to Beas); no guru 
(according 
> to Soami Bagh and Dayal Bagh). 
> Successors: Rai Salig Ram; Jaimal Singh; Gharib Das; Sanmukh Das; 
> Partap Singh; and Narayan Dei (Radhaji). 
> Center: Panni Gali and Soami Bagh, Agra. 
> Distinctions: Regarded as the founder of Radhasoami; popularized 
> surat shabd yoga; expressed the teachings of Sant mat in a 
simplified 
> and easy to understand manner. 
> Sources: Sar Bachan Radhasoami (both the prose and poetry volumes) 
by 
> Soamiji Maharaj; Biography of Soamiji Maharaj by Chachaji Maharaj 
> [Partap Singh]; and Last Discourse of Soamiji Maharaj and Letters 
of 
> Soamiji Maharaj & Huzur Maharaj .
>  
> Quoted from David C. Lane's The Radhasoami Tradition, Appendix One, 
> http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/g1.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> RAI SALIG RAM 
> "Huzur Maharaj" 
> Ministry Dates: Early 1880's to 1898 [apparently started gathering 
> his own initiates around 1884] 
> Guru: Shiv Dayal Singh 
> Successors: Brahm Shankar Misra; Ajudhia Prasad; and Shiv Brat Lal. 
> Center: Peepal Mandi, Agra. 
> Distinctions: Responsible for articulating Radhasoami mat as the 
> Supreme Incarnational religion of all time; expanding membership in 
> the Radhasoami movement; publishing the writings of Shiv Dayal 
Singh 
> as well as his own. 
> Sources: Prem Patra (six volumes) by Huzur Maharaj [Rai Salig Ram]; 
> Biography of Huzur Maharaj by S.D. Maheshwari; and Holy Epistles 
> (Volumes One and Two). 
> 
> Quoted from David C. Lane's The Radhasoami Tradition, Appendix One, 
> http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/g1.html
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> David C. Lane writes:
> 
> "Scholarly attention was first paid to the Radhasoami movement 
> indirectly when Max Mueller included a small section on Rai Salig 
Ram 
> in his often quoted, Ramakrishna: His Life and Work (1899). Prior 
to 
> this time, however, Salig Ram and Radhasoami were mentioned in 
> passing in several Theosophical books. Due to the diligent research 
> of Daniel Caldwell of Tuscon, Arizona, an authority on the early 
days 
> of Theosophy, a number of references to Salig Ram and his teachings 
> have been located. First, there is a paragraph on Salig Ram on page 
> 151 of the "Appendix to Fourth Edition" in The Occult World by A. 
P. 
> Sinnett (London: Trubner & Company, 1884). Second, there is a brief 
> mention of him in Esoteric Buddhism by A. P. Sinnett in 1885 (San 
> Diego: Wizards Bookshelf, 1981) on pages 9 and 10. Third, there is 
a 
> short description of Salig Ram and his guru in a letter allegedly 
> received around February 1882 on page 251 of The Mahatma Letters 
> (Adyar, Madras: The Theosophical Publishing House, 1979). And 
fourth, 
> Salig Ram's name appears as a subscriber in the December 1880 issue 
> of Theosophist magazine. . . . "
> 
> Quoted from David C. Lane's The Radhasoami Tradition, 
Introduction:  
> The Birth of a Guru, http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/rsintro.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> David C. Lane writes:
> 
> "Rai Salig Ram, according to this perspective, did [see Note 1] not 
> start the Radhasoami Faith, as such, but was rather the first 
> disciple and the only true gurumukh . . . to have the Mehr (Grace) 
to 
> recognize the unique stature of his guru. Subsequently, Shiv Dayal 
> Singh was pleased to reveal the nij mat (original doctrine/path) of 
> Radhasoami Purush (the Absolute Supreme Lord) to his beloved 
disciple 
> which he had not done previously to anyone. . . . "
> 
> [Note 1]: "I have termed Rai Salig Ram's perspective as 
> incarnationalist in my M.A. thesis, Radhasoami Mat (Berkeley: 
> Graduate Theological Union, 1981), since he believed that his guru, 
> Shiv Dayal Singh, was the FIRST ABSOLUTE manifestation of the 
Supreme 
> Lord on earth. . . . " caps added.
> 
> Quoted from David C. Lane's The Radhasoami Tradition, Chapter One, 
> http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/rs1.html
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> For biographical sketch of Shiv Dayal Singh, see:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9563/chapter3.html
> 
> "The first guru of the Radhasoami faith was Shri Shiv Dayal Singhji 
> who was later named Soamiji Maharaj. . . . "
> 
> For biographical sketch of Rai Salig Ram, see:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9563/chapter4.html
> 
> "The second guru of the Radhasoami Faith, Rai Saligram Bahadur, 
> popularly known as Huzur Maharaj, was born in a kayastha family of 
> Peepal Mandi, Agra, on 14 march 1829. . . . " 
> 
> See one of Salig Ram's works at:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7849/rsmprakash.html
> 
> Photo of Salig Ram at:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7849/huzur1.gif
> 
> -----------------------------------------------