Theos-Talk Archives (October 2002 Message tt00231)

Oct 28 2002

Re: "Voice" -- 7 lives before achieving "Spiritual Perfection" ( p.
75)

Dear Mauri:

The reason for the 7 life-times ["seven short and fleeting lives" --
"Voice" p, 75] is not given that I know of, but it has been hinted at
here and there -- presumably this is to clear up any residual Karma.
I can also appreciate the sense of delay you note. But if we truly,
in our inner natures, are immortals, does time as we rate it today
matter?

Seems to me the equation is not a question of time but of
thoroughness. Do we need it if we are to make ourselves completely
"spiritual?" It is not something that can be done haphazard. It is
not a "prize" that the Lower Man carries off and sets on his
mantle-piece, is it?

Note particularly the last 4 pages of the "Fragment" -- the questions
asked and the conditions implied.

If so, then we determine the amount of time it takes. Is that not
reasonable? Some do it slowly and need far more than 7 lives. Others
with enormous will power may do it far more quickly. We decide, we
are free-willed and make our own "path" always. I this case we are
being given a description of one who has already met and transcended
many trials, and stands on the threshold of SPIRITUAL success.

Just who makes the decision? Is it the inner Perceiver, the REAL MAN
? Or is it only the Personal Man (Lower Manas) who is disturbed by
this? Is it not reasonable to find out which aspect of ourselves is
considering this and acts?

Hermes long ago said "Man know thyself?" Why, and what for ? Which
Man did he mean?

Was it not for the "Lower Man" to know himself, his limitations his
character, and his capabilities? Can he do it in any other light that
that of his own HIGHER SELF -- the Ray of the universal SPIRIT ?

All the books are like windows, that open on to the vistas of
spiritual potential and possibility. They throw up for us to consider
the experiences of others who have preceded us. We cannot follow
their paths, but we have to make our own.

But read carefully the last of the 3 Fragments of the VOICE OF THE
SILENCE, as I think you will appreciate there are a number of things
to be accomplished, and we cannot achieve the final "goal" without
first, understanding, and second, putting the necessary disciplines
into action. Who monitors those? We do. We know if we are succeeding
or not.

Best wishes,

Dallas

======================

-----Original Message-----
From: Mauri [mailto:mhart@idirect.ca]
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 1:48 PM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: re to Gerald re . . .

Gerald wrote: << When I am told that Theosophy teaches
that at least 7 more lifetimes are required (ie, the spiritual
Path is "slow") then I find myself saying "No, no, no, no,
no." I believe that "slow" and "fast" are mental concepts,
and that by accepting "slow" at the outset, we delete "fast"
as a viable option.>.

About that, I think I might prefer words such as, for
example:

If I were told that Theosophy teaches that at least 7 more
lifetimes are required (as per the "apparent slowness" of
"one's spiritual Path") and, if I were asked how I
personally feel about that, I might respond with the likes
of:

My sense of relevance, or "sense of immediate relevance,"
seems to be the "reality" (the "keyishness," say, that my
sense of "reality/relevance" seems to bottom-line at, sort of
"basically," "apparently" . . .) from my point view,
although . . . and while I might ("do," apparently . . . ) in
various ways "concede" to whatever worldviews,
standards that might/do "apparently come my way,"
("when in Rome, do as the Romans do," and so on), so
while I might join in whatever co-operative
activities/appearances there may be, "physically,"
"mentally," "spiritually," that doesn't mean, for example,
that I "basically prefer" (on a "deeper level") to be
hemmed in by such simplistic, dualistic, exoteric,
dependent notions as "fast," "slow," "fear," "down," "up,"
"east," "west," "night," "day," etc (did the quotes help?
^:-). I seem to think that I have somewhat "deeper levels"
in which to be, at least "preferentially" as per my
speculative esoexoterizing, Theosophizing, although, ("true
enough"), I seem to be influenced by my environment and
seem to, at the same time, "apparently prefer" (ie,
"APPARENTLY PREFER," as when "yelling out in pain
when hurt," say, or when "falling off my chair," etc) to go
along for the ride even to the extent of . . . this and that . .
.

What I'm trying to say here is that those who hang on to
whatever dualistics there are that "SEEM" relevant, are,
from another angle, missing the "bigger picture" (that
"Theosophy," for example, would hint at). I seem to feel
that "spiritual progress" is particularly "individualistically
relevant" (ie, "esoteric" in the most intimate/experiential
sense) and so, while we may opt to (as per whatever
interpretive tendencies, karmalogistics) "use" various
"helpful dialogues," "books," "Theosophies," etc., as
indicators, sources of clues, etc., the "realer reality" "is"
(as per "MY speculative tendencies, apparently, at any rate
. . . ") that the "realer spiritual progress" is made in far
more individually-relevant ways and means that,
"basically," transcend manasic, conventional notions about
"fast," "slow," etc.

Not that you didn't point out:

<< I believe that "slow" and "fast" are mental concepts>>
and <<Karma does have an esoteric aspect. And so does a
Path. And "slow" and "fast" are subjective exoteric terms
with which we often label ourselves as we tread a Path.
"Fear," on the other hand, is simply a rationale for
"slow.">>

I think that defining about the relevance of "fast" and
"slow" in terms of their connection with "spiritual
progress" is highly subjective, and might be so subjective
and esoteric (in a sense) that there may be those who might
have substantially slowed down their "spiritual progress" as
a direct result of their concerns about "speeding up" . . .

I suspect that a more realistic "fast way" might involve a
kind of "middle way," instead, that in some manner that's
individually relevant transcends both "fast" and "slow" . . .

Speculatively,
Mauri


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