Theos-Talk Archives (October 2002 Message tt00001)

Hi John. I do not know if you read my whole message or not. I suggest you
try to go back, if you have the time, and read it again. As I have said,
Krishnamurti was no authority, nor am I. but any honest study of
Krishamurti's writings will lead you to a different conclusion than the one
you have come to about what Krishnamurti was saying. He was not speaking of
an individual following a path of ACCUMULATION based on his own subjective
preference, like a donkey, with the DESIRE of his own spiritual craving hung
in front of his nose like a corn. His whole teaching was to DROP this
accumulation, this chronological line of development, to DIE to it here and
now, as to continue it creates what he called "psychological time" which is
based on thought, memory and desire and leads to great suffering and
disorder.

This is his teaching. He is not talking about dying to the past tomorrow. He
is talking about doing it NOW. He also has given a method for doing this
and that method is by being completely attentive to what is, including
oneself as one is interacting while being (or attempting to be) attentive.
He used the method of dialogue (enquiry), which is approaching material
through questions rather than answers. As one is attentive to the world and
oneself in one's daily activity and attentive to oneself in the process of
enquiry, a more exact alignment to physical reality occurs as false
(unnecessary) reference points are shed, and " the observer becomes one with
the observed." This is not a process of accumulation, but one of
elimination.

And hey, guess what? Most people are not Krishnamurti, who in some ways was
not your ordinary spiritual seeker, and most people are unable to accomplish
what he was talking about, a total dying to each moment that results in a
complete transformation of the human brain. Or, actually, I should say, most
people UP TILL NOW have been unable to accomplish this, because this is a
different time, and it is possible that, in his case, his teaching may
become MORE rather than less time-appropriate as it ages. This is the first
time this has ever occurred to me, just now, as I wrote this last sentence.
Wry took a big leap. Did you ever have a new idea when you were writing an
email, AS you were writing?

And hey, guess what else? I don't even agree with what KRISHNAMURTI was
saying. Actually I both DO and DON'T. This is the truth and the
contradiction. I feel it in both my solar plexus and in my gu t. One thing I
do know, though, is that (up till now, at least), the average human being,
and this probably includes all of us, cannot and will not drop his
individual search (continuum of spiritual pursuit based on the desire to
accumulate.) This is a fact. F-A-C-T. FACE IT AND FEEL SORROW AS DO I, but
do not trick yourself.

Krishnamurti's teaching was that the total CONTENT of the past is in oneself
at the present moment. Therefore, all I need to do is study myself
interacting with the world NOW. This is "life." But when he says something
to the effect that "life" is the path, he is talking about life without the
schism between the observer and the observed that is created by thought
looking back (analysis). Analysis takes place from a place that is dirty.
Interesting, though, that the teaching of Shri Aurobindo, Madame Blavatasky,
and perhaps even Christianity, and many others, maybe even Krishnamurti (if
we're talking about actual physical earth) is that there is a little seed in
the dirt. If such be the case, even if we are speaking of simple physical
earth, we need to first prepare the field. If weeds are enough, there will
be no good food. If you and I believe that following our own subjective and
mechanical paths based on our individual conditioning will lead to truth,
than we will not get through the winter. Krishamurti went on, after he
dissolved the Order of the Star and spent a lifetime showing people how to
prepare the field for the creative act of being fully human.

To get to conscious doing is very big. It is too big for me. This is why I
suggest we start with simple questions. Why are we not able to let go of the
past, or as Krishnamurti said, when he summed up his teaching in a single
sentence, "Attempt without effort to live with death in futureless silence"?
Death is painless. It does not hurt, because it is nothing. It is obvious
that this is an immediate end to all conflict. Why are we not able to live
with death? Is there a way we can help each other do so? Is trying to do
this in conflict with the basic principles of theosophy or will it lead to
the accomplishment and realization of the aims and goals of theosophy? Also,
though I'm not against discussing Krishnamurti here, and already have
planned to make some messages sometime regarding A Sanat, if you want to
join a good Krishnamurti list, I suggest Katinka's list, K-and-C on yahoo. I
am happily on that list, though I have not been as involved recently.
Sincerely, Wry.


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vorstermans" <john@serion.co.nz>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: J. Krishnamurti dissolving the Order of the
Star of the East.htm


> Hi Wry.
>
> It looks to me like you are getting caught out in precisley the issues K
> brought to our attention by simply following his words rather than the
> intent behind them.
>
> I have found K a very interesting person, one with a very keen insight yet
> what he tried to do most of all is to get people to "walk their own
journey"
> themselves rather than rely on any teaching or ideal.
>
> To hang too heavily on his words is to simply fall into the same trap.
> Certainly we can read books, study philosophies of different schools of
> thought (one of the things that is done in the T.S.) but in the end we all
> have to recognise that none of this makes any difference if we do not
follow
> what we do believe to be the right journey for ourselves and stand up in
our
> own truth. We do not need to convince anyone else of what is right and
> wrong but rather live it for ourselves. This is the hardest thing in the
> world to do and K is not the only one who tried to give out this message.
>
> By point a finger at this or that and making judgement we are simply
fooling
> ourselves. Our est teacher is life itself. Observe how we react within
it
> and how we relate to those around us.
>
> Walk the talk.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>