Theos-Talk Archives (August 2002 Message tt00220)

Aug 23 2002

Re: Deluge over Atlantis -- Facts or Hypothesis ?
9,564 B C [ M L 151, 155 ] Poseidonis sank.

Dear Reed:

Actually our modern Science has no "traditions." Its only
3 to 400 years old. It the latest "kid in the block." It
has done great things technologically with physical
materials but the "soul" (the Astral causal side) is yet to
be well discovered and understood.


SCIENCE HAS HYPOTHESES AND THEORIES -- no PROOFS

It has a bunch of varying theories -- H P B shows that there
were several conflicting ones over 100 years ago. Every
true scientist agrees that the current theory, is broadly
based on Darwin's studies, and pursued through the hazardous
and scanty method of analyzing a very FEW fossils. As a
fact it is yet to be proved. The generally accepted (and
taught) scientific theory of evolution is based on
speculations derived from physical evidence, and then
misinterpreted without regard to the laws of development
observed and set by the same science. (S D I 181-191, S D
II 411, 728, ) -- see below.


SOME TEND TO HIDE EVIDENCE THAT DISPROVES THEORIES

Witness the recent tome: FORBIDDEN ARCHAEOLOGY by Crole &
Thomas.

Many of those pieces of evidence have been side-lined,
concealed in dark shelves and corners, and not really
examined -- as for instance de Quatrefages' observations :

De Quatrefages was an analytical physiologist and a
paleographer. He looked at, and carefully compared the
skeletal remains of ancient men and apes, and concluded
that Man had priority. Man's skeleton was primitive if not
primordial. It was non-specialized. The apes' skeleton
showed specializations and adaptations due to its
environment. It is a law in evolutionary development that
specializations cannot give rise to primitive
non-specialized forms. (S D II 675-685, 720 )

On this subject we find in The SECRET DOCTRINE this:

He was an agnostic, an unbiased, honest and earnest
scientist (S D II 645);
He exposed the fallacy of physical and fossil theories on
evolutionism (S D II 681);
He gave a blow to Darwinism ( S D II 56fn, 649-50, 654,
711, 681, 745fn, )
He EXPLAINS WHY Man could not have evolved from the Apes
( S D II 646, 666-7,)
Apes, he said, are likely to be descended from man (S D II
287-8. 682, 687fn, );
The man-ape likeness had been exaggerated ( S D II 87 fn);
Man was more likely to have existed before mammals evolved
( S D II 155, 746, );
Man existed in the Secondary Age ( S D II 10, 157, 219,
288, 686, 687fn, 714fn, )
In the Miocene period ( S D II 746, );
Quarternary man was intelligent (S D II 749)


A SPIRITUAL CAUSE IS THE SOURCE OF EVOLUTION

The theosophical view of evolution starts in the Spiritual
(Monadic) because it is CAUSAL. ( S D I 175, 634, 641, II
241, 261-3, 273, 299, 348, 421, 728, 731-4).
It then passes through the rest of the "principles" and in
the Astral (where changes and modifications are made ) it
finally emerges on to the solid, gross physical. The
physical always evolves from the spiritual (S D I 181,
219, 341, II 109).
This is a doctrine that supplements scientific observations.
It provides a amore comprehensive reason. ( S D I 127; II
545, 728).
Theosophy states that evolution works on many levels other
than the mere physical ( S D II 87. 1-2, ). Evolution
covers the relationship between the inner and the other
senses (S D I 446-7, II 294)


One of the axioms of Theosophy is that "all beings must
eventually acquire human intelligence (S D I 106, 277).
The Monad and the development of the personal self compel it
(S D II 109-10).


INTELLIGENCE CAUSES EVOLUTION

There is ONE INDIVISIBLE INTELLIGENCE in the Cosmos ( S D I
64, 94, 256, 277, 530, 634,
S D II 596,) .
It sets all laws into motion (S D I 591). The stars are
ruled by it (S D II 352).
Intelligence in Man is condemned to reincarnate -- by the
Karma he generates through free choice --
(S D II 248, 303-5,).
Karma presides over the dying-out of races (S D II
779-80, ).
Nations cannot escape Karma - I 675.
Heredity is the servant of Karma (S D II 178 ).


FOSSILS ARE NO SURE INDEX OF EVOLUTION

The very few Physical remains, (fossils) give no sure index
of the actual intelligence that has used any form. (S D II
168fn, 522-3) It is a false assumption to attribute to the
shape of fossils an index of intelligence -- this is
arbitrary, unwarranted and speculative.


THE CRO-MAGNONS WERE A LARGER BRAINED RACE THAN WE ARE

Evidence for a large-brained race ( Cro-Magnon and Guanches
may be found in (S D II 678fn, 686-7 740, 790fn,) These
were some of the descendents from Atlantean races (S D
II 678fn, 740fn, 741, 790fn).


BRAIN CAPACITY OF APES IS 1/3rd OF OURS.

It is interesting to note that the brain capacity (volume)
of the higher Apes are only about 1/3rd of the average human
( S D II 193fn, 661, 676, 682, ) About 120 cubic inches
(man), to 30 or 34 cubic inches (apes).


It is a rule or law in evolutionary development that a
non-SPECIALIZED form (the primitive or primordial human
form) cannot arise or be evolved from a SPECIALIZED form
(as is the case with the apes, who have developed
specializations). This one piece of evidence demolishes by
their own self-instituted rules the "descent of man from
the apes" theory.

What is left? Only a few old bones which being scattered
and weather worn can be arranged in any conformation the
paleontologist desires. This ought to be evident to any
careful observer.

The purpose of life, said a sage, is to learn. It is all
made up of learning.

I'm afraid there is no final limit to such a study, and one
ought to inform ones' self about these statements to secure
a more comprehensive view.

Best wishes,

Dallas

=======================

-----Original Message-----
From: Reed Carson
Sent:	Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:01 PM
To:
Subject: Atlantis - when did it sink.

The quotes brought forward so far do indicate multiple times
in the earth's
history when there have been significant floods and earth
adjustments
according to Theosophy.

In my estimate, the question of Atlantis is a fascinating
one to people
generally. What I would like to do is relate their concept
of Atlantis to
that of Theosophy and to that of science. Then of course
Theosophy adds
still more.

As to relating to science, I think we should come to
understand a little
better how at variance from traditional science our view of
Atlantis
actually is. We often don't appreciate that. In other
words, we should
understand the significance of what we are saying when we
say it.

Also, in my view, the most modern science is quite
supportive of our view
of Atlantis. Yet the facts on this are not generally known.
So I think
this should also be explored.

The fist step in this direction is to determine when
Theosophy says
Atlantis occurred. As Larry has said, the dating is a
little confusing and
we should lock it down as much as possible up front.

As Dallas has made clear, there are multiple floods. For
the purposes
described above, I would like to focus on the sinking of
that last
remnant of Atlantis called Poseidonis.

Here are two of the quotes pointed to by Dallas:

"An impenetrable veil of secrecy was thrown over the occult
and religious
mysteries taught, after the submersion of the last remnant
of the Atlantean
race, some 12,000 years ago, lest they should be shared by
the unworthy,
and so desecrated" (SECRET DOCTRINE ii 124)

"Poseidonis, or the (last) island of Atlantis "the third
step of Idaspati"
(or Vishnu) in the mystic language of the secret books -
lasted till about
12,000 years ago." (SECRET DOCTRINE ii 765)

......

Now here is the info that I think is most fascinating. It
occurs in the
Mahatma Letters. ( pp. 151, 155 Barker edition)

Sinnett had asked this question of the Master: "To what
epoch did the
existence of the Continent of Atlantis belong, and did the
cataclysmical
change which produced its extinction come into any appointed
place in the
evolution of the round ..."

Sinnett received back what is called "Letter No. 93B" in
October 1882.
[M L 151, 155, Barker Edn. ]
The reply contained this:

"In the Eocene Age - even in its" very first part --" the
great cycle of
the fourth Race men, the Atlanteans, had already reached its
highest point,
and the great continent, the father of nearly all the
present continents,
showed the first symptoms of sinking -- a process that
occupied it down to
11,466 years ago, when its last island, that, translating
its vernacular
name, we may call with propriety Poseidonis, went down with
a crash."

Also, little later in the same reply the answer said this:

"The great event -- the triumph of our "Sons of the Fire
Mist," the
inhabitants of "Shamballah" (when yet an island in the
Central Asian Sea)
over the selfish but not entirely wicked Magicians of
Poseidonis occurred
just 11,446 ago".

Now a little calculation is of course in order. We should
note that the
year zero never happened. (The year before the year 1 AD is
called 1 BC.
) So to find the year that Atlantis sunk we subtract 1882
from
11,446. This yields 9,564 BC as the exact year of the
sinking of the
Poseidonis .

This is quite consistent with the "about 12,000 years ago"
and the "some
12,000 years ago" from the SD.

Now this is dramatic. Theosophy gives the exact year of the
sinking!! It
is rare for Theosophy to give such an exact year. Does
anyone know of any
other place in the Theosophical literature that gives the
exact year?

Also I do not know of any other person or group that
purports to give the
exact year of the sinking of Atlantis. Does anyone else
know of such a
claim anywhere?

Now if that year could be confirmed in anyway then we would
have a strong
confirmation of Theosophy.

One begins to imagine the adepts actually keeping the
historical records as
they had lived though the event.

P.S. Note that the Master in the second quote did not just
say "the sinking
of Atlantis". Instead he referred to "the great event". We
will also have
to decide if there is significance in that turn of phrase
from a geological
point of view.

Reed