Theos-Talk Archives (July 2002 Message tt00194)

Dear Bee,

Firstly, it's good to have another person on this list
who resides within cooee!!!
Right on, you are in this neck of the woods also !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like your words and expressions of K's work. From
what I gathered from your post freedom is a state of
mind rather than a tangible phenomenon. That is, one
can search and search for this freedom thing but never
find it because it doesn't actually exist. One must
search within themselves where freedom truly lies. Are
these the sorts of sentiments that you have gathered
from K's work?
I think it is even more than a state of mind but that is where it begins to
become part of a sense of belonging to oneself and to feel the freedom as a
way of life. It is not a usual way to feel so many hicups happen along the
way but once that sense has arisen, there seems to be a reference point when
the hicups cause problems. 
I find the expression 'a stranger in a strange land' rather expressive. To
feel that and understand what it means and to accept it and live accordingly
can be challenging but strenghtening to the spirit ...... It somehow gives a
strenght to be able to cope with life and the fact that one cannot get off
the bus at certain times ..... To desire something is part of living in the
physical world but to understand what to desire and what can be delivered
without suffering or effort are the hard parts. 
It was interesting in K's book The Ending of Time where he talks to David
Bohem, that K chided him about thinking rather that intuiting what he was
talking to him about. K lead him round the thinking roundabout trying to
trick him into understanding without thinking about what he understood. That
is very hard for people used to thinking about every little thing. Freedom
is a deep inner state that emerges into a person's world and makes it's mark
without effort or even awareness sometimes. Other times it is that inner
freedom that allows wise choices to be made because it takes much more stuff
into consideration when making choices. Our desires make many of our choices
but from desire the choices are much narrower, being coloured by the desire
itself.
Freedom is a very intersting subject and I think understood in so many ways
that it is hard to come to some small undertanding of what K really meant by
it..
cheers from
a tree in the same forest :-)


Regards,
Mic


--- Bee Brown <bbbrown@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> 
> 
> I haven't been there yet but I was really interested
> in your question on
> freedom.
> I have read a fair bit of K's stuff and have come to
> understand that freedom
> seems to come with understanding.
> I think K tried hard to get his audience to
> intuitively get what he was
> trying to say because it is something felt and
> understood on that level.
> If I understand what he meant by freedom then it
> seems to me that I have
> more choices about what I do. 
> If a person who understood K got on that bus, it
> would be by choice and with
> the understanding that he/she got on that bus for
> certain reasons and the
> event of getting on the bus would have a deliberate
> content. 
> If a person who didn't understand got on the bus
> then he/she could be said
> to be part of that event because there was no
> understanding that there was
> an alternative way of being on that bus and the act
> of getting on the bus
> would not be deliberate in the sense that K means. 
> 
> 
> 
> great website and very informative, thank you.
> 
> I read the Krishnamurti profile on the home page and
> was particularly interested in the following
> sentence:
> 
> "Declaring that his only concern was to ‘set man
> absolutely, unconditionally free’, he sought to
> liberate man from his deep conditioning of sorrow,
> fear, violence, and selfishness."
> 
> Although Krishnamurti's goal may have been to set
> men
> free from their own inhibitions I doubt a man can
> ever
> be "unconditionally" free. Can a man be free from
> the
> economic system he finds himself? Can a man be free
> from the social conventions of the community in
> which
> he resides? Can a man escape from the political
> system
> that surrounds him, whether it be a democracy or a
> dictatorship?
> 
> If you consider the notion of the Monad
> unconditional
> freedom seems more and more unattainable. Although I
> am a Monad when I enter a bus, for instance, I am
> part
> of that bus and have temporarily sacrificed my
> freedom. When the bus is in motion I am completely
> at
> the will of the bus and I have sacrificed my freedom
> to the bus. Yes I can get off at any time but when
> the
> bus is travelling at 100km/hr I would be most wise
> to
> give up the ideal of unconditional freedom.
> There is no sacrifice in an act that is done
> deliberately and with
> understanding of why it is being done. It would be
> understood before getting
> on the bus that physical laws that acted as
> restrictions were part of the
> event of being on that bus. We agree to restrictions
> on our physical
> activity when we participate in a physical event. K
> says it helps us to cope
> and accept this if we understand that such is the
> case.
> It is like folk who blame things outside themselves
> for things that go wrong
> in their lives. If you want to get off a bus that is
> in motion then broken
> bones at the least, is to be expected. Unconditional
> freedom seems to me to
> be a state of mind, not a fact in physical life.
> Physical life becomes
> influenced by such a state of mind but the physical
> laws are understood and
> accepted as necessary to live in the physical world.
> Sorrow and suffering
> comes when we desire to do things that are not
> compatible either with
> physical laws or with our conscience. I know when I
> have done something
> incompatible with either of them and so I am able to
> think about it and try
> to do better next time. Seems to me that is what K
> wanted us to consider so
> that we could grow to be freer and thereby accepting
> of what our lot in this
> life is meant to teach us.
> Cheers
> Bee
> 
> 
> So all this rambling appears to be quite pedantic
> and
> well really that is all it is. But we have to be
> sure
> that when we are talking about freedom we are never
> talking about absolute and unconditional freedom.
> There will always be conditions because we are
> entities that exist relative to other entities. This
> in itself eliminates the notion of uncondtional
> freedom.
> 
> mic
> 
> 
> --- ramadoss@gbronline.com wrote:
> >
>
*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~
> > Through the joint effort of the Krishnamurti
> > Foundations worldwide, a new 
> > Website wholly dedicated to the writings, talks,
> and
> > discussions of 
> > Krishnamurti is now available to the entire world.
> > Visit 
> > www.jkrishnamurti.org. New material is added to
> the
> > site each month and 
> > translations in Spanish are being prepared.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> . 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 


. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]