Theos-Talk Archives (July 2002 Message tt00100)

July 8 2002

Dear Friend and Friends:


I am inserting some notes below for considerations,

Thanks,

Dallas

====================================

-----Original Message-----
From: g schuel
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:19 PM
To:
Subject: Comments on Some Quotes


Some comments on quotes provided by Dallas:



<<<<"...those EGOS of great Adepts who have passed away, and are also
known as
Nirmanakayas;...for whom--since they are beyond illusion--there is no
Devachan, and who, having either voluntarily renounced it for the good
of
mankind, or not yet reached Nirvana, remain invisible on earth...they
are
re-born over and over again...Who they are, "on earth"--every student
of
Occult science knows..." SD II 615>>>

The above is entirely Blavatsky's own invention, and cannot be found
anywhere
in Buddhism where the nirmanakaya is used as different things by
different
schools but none use it as Blavatsky did.

-------------------

DTB	see last 7 pages of VOICE OF THE SILENCE on this. H P B
apparently translated from a Mahayana treatise. So averred the
Panchen Lama.

----------------------


<<<<"The real Mahatma is then not his physical body but that higher
Manas
which is inseparably linked to the Atma and its vehicle (6th
principle) -- a
union effected by him in a comparatively very short period by passing
through
the self-evolution laid down by the Occult Philosophy."
HPB ART I 293>>>

I already described how this union comes about in previous posts.

<<<"Nirmanakayas. They are men who have become perfected--who could
if they
chose reach up to and hold the very highest state of bliss, but who
refuse
that bliss because it would mean forever to forsake all chance of
helping
their fellow-men. They can, when the nature of the person is true and
aspiring strongly, communicate, if it is necessary to help him. But
there is
no mistake in these communications. They are personal, meant for that
one as
direct help. It is the within which induces any outside help that we
receive.
It is a recognition of the spiritual nature of ourselves and all
beings
which makes the true condition. It is from the spiritual that the
strength
comes. And it is for the perfection of humanity that all the Divine
Incarnations have labored." RC -- FP p. 258>>>

Although she lists "Nirmanakayas" in the title here, her description
fits
Bodhisattvas. Either she confused the two or her editors did.

-----------------------------------------


DTB	H PB did not confuse them. Theosophy is the source of those
apparent differences -- the languages used different designations for
the same qualities and capacities.

---------------------------------------




<<<"Whoever...wants to see the real Mahatma, must use his intellectual
sight.
He must so elevate his Manas that its perceptions will be clear and
all mists
created by Maya must be dispelled. His vision will then be bright and
he will
see the MAHATMAS wherever he may be, for, being merged into the 6th
and the
7th principles, which are ubiquitous and omnipresent, the MAHATMAS may
be said
to be everywhere." HPB ART I 294>>>

This quote indicates that there is a way to know for certain that
Mahatmas
exist, and that is to become one. Anyone with Gnosis can see that same
flame
in others, when it exists.

<<<"...human consciousness" is but a Ray of the Divine. Our Manas, or
Ego,
proceeds from, and is the Son (figuratively) of Mahat.>>>

Mahat is a Hindu personification of cosmic consciousness or the
collective
consciousness of our human life-wave.

<<< Vaivaswatta Manu (the Manu of our fifth race and Humanity in
general) is
the chief personified representative of the thinking Humanity of the
fifth
Root-race; and therefore he is represented as the eldest Son of the
Sun and
an Agnishwatta Ancestor...>>>

Here she acknowledges the personification.

<<<Thought in its action on human brains is endless. Thus Manu is,
and
contains the potentiality of all the thinking forms which will be
developed on
earth from this particular source. In the esoteric teaching he is the
beginning of this earth , and from him and his daughter Ila humanity
is born;
he is a unity which contains all the pluralities and their
modifications.
Every manvantara has its own Manu, and from this Manu the various
Manus or
rather all the Manasa of the Kalpas will proceed...he may be compared
to the
white light which contains all the other rays, giving birth to them by
passing
through the prism of differentiation and evolution." TRAN. 99>>>

As above so below. Just as the physical body has an astral prototype,
so with
the human mind.

<<<"Bodha means the innate possession of divine intellect or
"understanding;"
"Buddha," the acquirement of it by personal efforts and merit; while
Buddhi
is the faculty of cognizing the channel through which divine knowledge
reaches
the "Ego," the discernment of good and evil, "divine conscience" also;
and
"Spiritual Soul," which is the vehicle of Atma. "When Buddhi absorbs
our
EGO-tism (destroys it) with all its Vikara, Avalokiteshvara becomes
manifested to us, and Nirvana, or Mukti, is reached," "Mukti" being
the same
as Nirvana, i.e., freedom from the trammels of "Maya" or illusion.>>>

"Mulki being the same as Nirvana" is a Hinayana teaching and is
thoroughly
rejected in Mahayana. In Mahayana mukti or release is from both
samsara and
nirvana, the two being two sides of the same thing. Nirvana is just as
much
maya as samsara is. "Bodha" is not found in my Sanskrit dictionary and
is
apparently a Blavatsky invention. Where she has "Buddha" it would be
more
technically correct to say "Buddhahood."

<<<"Bodhi" is likewise the name of a particular state of trance
condition,
called Samadhi, during which the subject reaches the culmination of
spiritual
knowledge." SD I xix>>>>

Buddhism does not equate "bodhi" (which translates as enlightenment)
with
samadhi (which translates as a spiritual state of consciousness), and
according to Tsongkhspa there are an infinite number of samadhis.
Bodhicitta,
among other things, translates as "the mind of enlightenment" or
simply "an
enlightened mind."

-----------------------------------------

DTB	As I see it analysis and new labels do not destroy the facts

----------------------------------------


<<<<"Remember, thou that fightest for man's liberation,* each failure
is
success and each sincere attempt wins its reward in time." * This is
an
allusion to a well-known belief in the East...that every additional
Buddha or
Saint is a new soldier in the army of those who work for the
liberation, or
salvation of mankind. In Northern Buddhist countries, where the
doctrine of
the Nirmanakayas--those Bodhisattvas who renounce well-earned Nirvana
or the
Dharmakaya vesture (both of which shut them out forever from the world
of men)
in order to invisibly assist mankind and lead it finally to
Paranirvana--is
taught, every new Bodhisattva, or initiated great Adept, is called the
"liberator of mankind." VOICE OF THE SILENCE, p. 69>>>

With this quote in mind, I have to ask: Why does Theosophy ignore and
downplay
liberation?

---------------------------

DTB	LIBERATION is selfish as it engages only the DESIRE NATURE --
KAMA.

--------------------------


<<<"A Bodhisattva is, in the hierarchy, less than a "perfect Buddha."
In the
exoteric parlance these two are very much confused. Yet the innate
and right
popular perception, owing to that self-sacrifice has placed a
Bodhisattva
higher in its reverence than a Buddha.>>>

Bodhisattvahood has 10 distinct stages, and Buddhahood is at the top,
the
highest stage.

----------------------------------

DTB	The ability of create labels does not destroy or enhance reality.
It may confuse understanding.

----------------------------------


<<<This same popular reverence calls "Buddhas of Compassion" those
Bodhisattvas who, having reached the rank of an Arhat (i.e., have
completed
the fourth or seventh Path), refuse to pass into the Nirvanic state or
"don
the Dharmakaya robe and cross to the other shore," as it would then
become
beyond their power to assist men even so little as Karma permits.
They prefer
to remain invisibly (in Spirit, so to speak) in the world, and
contribute
towards man's salvation by influencing them to follow the Good Law,
i.e., lead
them on the Path of Righteousness..."

VOICE OF THE SILENCE, p. 77>>>

An Arhat is a title used in Hinayana Buddhism, and is usually a title
given in
Mahayana for one who has reached the Path of Seeing. Tibetans do, in
fact,
separate the first 7 stages of Bodhisavattvahood from the higher
stages. The
higher stages being much harder to obtain.

----------------------------------

DTB	So ?

---------------------------------


<<<"... we know that at a certain period of progress, far above this
sublunary
world, the adept reaches a point when he may, if he so chooses,
formulate a
wish that he might be one of the Devas, one of the bright host of
beings of
whose pleasure and glory and power we can have no idea. The mere
formulation
of the wish is enough. At that moment he becomes one of the Devas.
He then
for a period of time which in its extent is incalculable, enjoys that
condition--then what? Then he has to begin again low down on the
scale, in a
mode and for a purpose which it would be useless to detail here,
because it
could not be understood..." WQJ ARTICLES I pp 8-9>>>

Here Judge is referring to the highest of the six kingdoms of sentient
beings,
the gods. Even the gods are temporary.

---------------------------------------

DTB	"GODS" are labels attached to the achievement of certain powers
perfects for the use of the Universe, since man's progress makes of
him its servant and assistant. Shall we trust Nature? Certainly. It
is NATURE (as a whole) that supports our life and independence, and
offers an educative program whereby we may perfect our SPIRITUAL as
well as our PSYCHIC natures. If we become "perfect, then, why not
continue to trust Nature -- after all, it and we are ONE.

---------------------------------

<<<"Nirmanakaya...is that ethereal form which one would assume when
leaving
his physical he would appear in his astral body--having in addition
all the
knowledge of an Adept. The Bodhisattva develops it in himself as he
proceeds
on the Path. >>>

This is a Blavatsky invention and not found in Buddhism.

------------------------------------

DTB	The whole of Buddhism is yet to be entirely covered. From what
the Mahatmas write, Theosophy is Buddhism, and the great Buddha is
their PATRON. Contradiction ? Why ? Still labeling.

----------------------------------


<<< Having reached the goal and refused its fruition, he remains on
Earth, as
an Adept; and when he dies, instead of going into Nirvana, he remains
in that
glorious body he has woven for himself, invisible to uninitiated
mankind, to
watch over and protect it...Thus, to be enabled to help humanity, an
Arhat who
has won the right to Nirvana, "renounces the Dharmakaya body" in
mystic
parlance; keeps, of the Sambhogakaya, only the great and complete
knowledge,
and remains in his Nirmanakaya body. The Esoteric School teaches that
Gautama Buddha, with several of his Arhats, is such a Nirmanakaya
higher than
whom, on account of the great renunciation and sacrifice for mankind,
there is
none known." VOICE 77-8>>>

According to Buddhism, the Adept who is still alive is in a
nirmanakaya, and
when they die they enter either the dharmakaya or sambhogakaya. But
this is an
exoteric view of these three bodies, and more esoteric interpretations
are
available, especially in Dzogchen.

-------------------------------------

DTB	According to the VOICE OF THE SILENCE the Nirmanakaya is a
Mahatma, a full ADEPT -- IT is a CONSCIOUSNESS THAT IS ENTIRELY
SPIRITUALIZED. He is not using a physical body. If and when the
Nirmanakaya needs a physical body and incarnates, then we have before
us the MAHATMA.

-------------------------

<<<<"...I maintain as an occultist on the authority of the Secret
Doctrine,
that though merged entirely into Parabrahm, man's spirit while not
individual
per se, yet preserves its distinct individuality in Paranirvana, owing
to the
accumulation in it of the aggregates, or skandhas that have survived
after
each death, from the highest faculties of the Manas. The most
spiritual--i.e., the highest and divinest aspirations of every
personality
follow Buddhi and the Seventh Principle into Devachan (Swarga) after
the death
of the Monad...the individuality of the spirit-soul...is preserved to
the end
of the great cycle (Maha-Manwantara) when each Ego enters Paranirvana,
or is
merged in Parabrahm...however long the "night of Brahma" or even the
Universal Pralaya...yet, when it ends, the same individual Divine
Monad
resumes its majestic path of evolution, though on a higher,
hundredfold
perfected and more pure chain of earths (266) than before, and brings
with it
all the essence of compound spiritualities from its previous countless
rebirths."

HPB ARTICLES III 265-6>>>

The above accounts for the statistical average "monad" in incarnation
today.
When fully enlightened or liberated, there are no more "skandhas" and
so no
more "individuality." Neither individual nor collective exists in
Beness.

----------------------------------

DTB	OPINIONS DIFFER. Apparently some have been there and retain a
full consciousness of that condition. It would seem on reading The
SECRET DOCTRINE Vol. I that this is the case. Immortality is
immortality, and eternity is eternity. There are no limits. Only the
Personal Mind is limited. We all labor under that condition. Mind
stretch is the beginning of the spiritual consciousness that
overspreads the psychic and the physical concepts we so far have
perfected.

----------------------------------



<<<"...It is owing to this rebellion of intellectual life against the
morbid
inactivity of pure spirit, that we are what we are--self-conscious,
thinking
men, with the capabilities and attributes of Gods in us, for good as
much as
for evil. Hence the REBELS are our saviours. Let the philosopher
ponder well
over this, and more than one mystery will become clear to him. It is
only by
the attractive force of the contrasts that the two opposites--Spirit
and
Matter--can be cemented on Earth, and, smelted in the fire of
self-conscious
experience and suffering, find themselves wedded in Eternity..."
SD II 103>>>

Relative to ego, spirituality is a "morbid inactivity." Relative to
the
Spiritual Self, the ego is mayavic illusion. relative to the
indivisible
Monad, neither ego nor Ego exist at all. "Rebels" are therefore pretty
relative.

---------------------------------

DTB	I don't get the connection or to logical sequence.

--------------------------

<<<Life is one grand school of Being, and we have come to that stage
where it
is right for us to learn to understand the purpose of existence; to
grasp our
whole nature firmly; to use every means in our power in every
direction...to
bring the whole of our nature into accord, so that our lower
instrument may be
"in line" and thus more and more fully reflect our divine natures."

RC -- FP p. 263>>>

If the above is true, I can only wonder when we will "come to that
stage"
wherein the mayavic nature of everything will be clearly seen? Sigh...

---------------------------------------

DTB	I see hope that we al will -- some day -- and our present efforts
count for that achievement.

===================


<<<"There is no difference between the teachings of Jesus and the
teachings of
the Buddha, although those teachings are recorded in different
languages and
an interval of six hundred years separated the two great Teachers.
What is
true of these two is likewise true of all the other many Saviours of
different
times and peoples--they all taught the same fundamental ideas.>>>

And the most fundamental of all is liberation, the freedom to do our
will upon
the earth without restriction or bondage or limitation.

-------------------------------

DTB	According to theosophy LIBERATION is a temporary resting condition
It is psychic and personal and has little to do with the ultimate
SPIRITUAL.
[ see SECRET DOCTRINE II 79-80, 94 on "returning Nirvanees" ]

-------------------------------


<<<This fact suggests that there is a body of Men, of perfected men,
product
of past civilizations and evolution, our Elder Brothers, in fact, who
have
acquired and are Custodians of the knowledge and experience gained
through
aeons of time. Their knowledge is actually the Science of Life, for
it enters
into every department of existence, of nature...>>>

But this "knowledge" is not intellectual and is, in fact, entirely
experiential.

------------------------------

DTB	The whole process of development from ignorance to wisdom, and
from physical, personal limitations to universal and spiritual
self-consciousness is by use of experience and that experience covers
the whole of the experience that an individual immortal MONAD can
encompass in its progress -- an eternal continuum -- a FOREVER LIVING.

================

<<<The great work of evolution proceeds from within outwards. The
Soul is the
Perceiver; it looks directly on ideas. The action of the will is
through
ideas. The ideas give the direction. Small ideas, small force;
large
ideas, large force; the Force itself is illimitable, for it is the
force of
Spirit, infinite and exhaustless. What we lack are universal
ideas..."

RC -- FP p. 269-270>>>

This "evolution" will continue until we realize that within is also
without
and that the perceiver is the perceived.

--------------------------------


DTB	EXACTLY -- a fine Paradox. and we are the KEY TO THEOSOPHY
(HPB) to our own limitations, when we learn to "step aside" and allow
the divine spiritual consciousness interior to us to illuminate our
minds and perceive the BROTHERHOOD and the UNITY OF ALL.

----------------------------


Jerry S.