Theos-Talk Archives (June 2002 Message tt00104)

Hi all,

Allright Dallas lets us do GOOD and pray (spiritually)...and let us at least avoid hurting...
But Dallas by reversing the question - you according to me avoid dealing with the seroius question of making proper PR to the theosophical cause.

If nobody is printing anything or making any lectures - on the corrupt politicians - to show them and the world, that the ancient wisdom and the Masters REALLY is alive and kicking, then theosophy only shows it self as a poorexample to follow, while not following up on the ideas of HPB on that issue - "corrupt politicians" (The Key to Theosophy). You see HPB made PR on the issue in her own book ! (Section 12)

What I mean is one ought to call the political system by its proper name 'corrupt', i.e. when it is so. At least to avoid further bad actions from taking place.
It is when the disciple is creating a spiritual centre of energies around himself/herself, that articles and awareness on Theosophy and its views on politics will come forward. HPB did that in her time. 
What are Theosophy doing today on this so very important issue ? 
What can be done ?

(Why does politicians, hindus, christians, muslims, buddhists, etc... NOT meet togehter and pray to their respective Gods ? Is it just because the politicians are corrupt ? ) 

I will suggest that the next lecture in New York (or elsewhere) has the title: "Theosophy on todays corrupt political system(s)". 

Allow me to paste the parts of The Key to Theosophy (parts of section 4 and12 and 'the future of TS'), which makes me wonder why Theosophy is not much more dedicated to social uplifting.

SECTION 4
***

ENQUIRER. Yet it is rather difficult to draw the line of demarcation between the abstract and the concrete in this case, as we have only the latter toform our judgment by. 

THEOSOPHIST. Then why make an exception for the T. S.? Justice, like charity, ought to begin at home. Will you revile and scoff at the "Sermon on the Mount" because your social, political and even religious laws have, so far,not only failed to carry out its precepts in their spirit, but even in their dead letter? Abolish the oath in Courts, Parliament, Army and everywhere, and do as the Quakers do, if you will call yourselves Christians. Abolishthe Courts themselves, for if you would follow the Commandments of Christ,you have to give away your coat to him who deprives you of your cloak, andturn your left cheek to the bully who smites you on the right. "Resist notevil, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you," for "whosoever shall break one of the least of these Commandmentsand shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven," and "whosoever shall say 'Thou fool' shall be in danger of hell fire." And why should you judge, if you would not be judged in your turn? Insistthat between Theosophy and the Theosophical Society there is no difference, and forthwith you lay the system of Christianity and its very essence open to the same charges, only in a more serious form. 

ENQUIRER. Why more serious? 


***
SECTION 12
***


ENQUIRER. All this is very vague. What do you do more than Christians do? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. It is not what we members of the Theosophical Society do -- though some of us try our best -- but how much farther Theosophy leads to good than modern Christianity does. I say -- action, enforced action, instead of mere intention and talk. A man may be what he likes, the most worldly, selfish and hard-hearted of men, even a deep-dyed rascal, and it will not prevent him from calling himself a Christian, or others from so regarding him. But no Theosophist has the right to this name, unless he is thoroughly imbued with the correctness of Carlyle's truism: "The end of man is an actionand not a thought, though it were the noblest" -- and unless he sets and models his daily life upon this truth. The profession of a truth is not yet the enactment of it; and the more beautiful and grand it sounds, the more loudly virtue or duty is talked about instead of being acted upon, the more forcibly it will always remind one of the Dead Sea fruit. Cant is the most loathsome of all vices; and cant is the most prominent feature of the greatest Protestant country of this century -- England. 
 
ENQUIRER. What do you consider as due to humanity at large? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. Full recognition of equal rights and privileges for all, and without distinction of race, colour, social position, or birth. 
 
ENQUIRER. When would you consider such due not given? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. When there is the slightest invasion of another's right -- be that other a man or a nation; when there is any failure to show him the same justice, kindness, consideration or mercy which we desire for ourselves. The whole present system of politics is built on the oblivion of such rights, and the most fierce assertion of national selfishness. The French say: "Like master, like man"; they ought to add, "Like national policy, like citizen." 
 
ENQUIRER. Do you take any part in politics? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. As a Society, we carefully avoid them, for the reasons given below. To seek to achieve political reforms before we have effected a reformin human nature, is like putting new wine into old bottles. Make men feel and recognise in their innermost hearts what is their real, true duty to all men, and every old abuse of power, every iniquitous law in the national policy, based on human, social or political selfishness, will disappear of itself. Foolish is the gardener who seeks to weed his flower-bed of poisonous plants by cutting them off from the surface of the soil, instead of tearing them out by the roots. No lasting political reform can be ever achieved with the same selfish men at the head of affairs as of old. 
 
THE RELATIONS OF THE T. S. TO POLITICAL REFORMS. 
ENQUIRER. The Theosophical Society is not, then, a political organization? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. Certainly not. It is international in the highest sense in that its members comprise men and women of all races, creeds, and forms of thought, who work together for one object, the improvement of humanity; but asa society it takes absolutely no part in any national or party politics. 
 
ENQUIRER. Why is this? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. Just for the reasons I have mentioned. Moreover, political action must necessarily vary with the circumstances of the time and with the idiosyncracies of individuals. While from the very nature of their position as Theosophists the members of the T. S. are agreed on the principles of Theosophy, or they would not belong to the society at all, it does not thereby follow that they agree on every other subject. As a society they can onlyact together in matters which are common to all -- that is, in Theosophy itself; as individuals, each is left perfectly free to follow out his or herparticular line of political thought and action, so long as this does not conflict with Theosophical principles or hurt the Theosophical Society. 
 
ENQUIRER. But surely the T. S. does not stand altogether aloof from the social questions which are now so fast coming to the front? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. The very principles of the T. S. are a proof that it does not -- or, rather, that most of its members do not -- so stand aloof. If humanity can only be developed mentally and spiritually by the enforcement, firstof all, of the soundest and most scientific physiological laws, it is the bounden duty of all who strive for this development to do their utmost to see that those laws shall be generally carried out. All Theosophists are only too sadly aware that, in Occidental countries especially, the social condition of large masses of the people renders it impossible for either their bodies or their spirits to be properly trained, so that the development of both is thereby arrested. As this training and development is one of the express objects of Theosophy, the T. S. is in thorough sympathy and harmony with all true efforts in this direction. 
 
ENQUIRER. But what do you mean by "true efforts"? Each social reformer has his own panacea, and each believes his to be the one and only thing which can improve and save humanity? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. Perfectly true, and this is the real reason why so little satisfactory social work is accomplished. In most of these panaceas there is noreally guiding principle, and there is certainly no one principle which connects them all. Valuable time and energy are thus wasted; for men, insteadof co-operating, strive one against the other, often, it is to be feared, for the sake of fame and reward rather than for the great cause which they profess to have at heart, and which should be supreme in their lives. 
 
ENQUIRER. How, then, should Theosophical principles be applied so that social co-operation may be promoted and true efforts for social amelioration becarried on? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. Let me briefly remind you what these principles are -- universal Unity and Causation; Human Solidarity; the Law of Karma; Re-incarnation.These are the four links of the golden chain which should bind humanity into one family, one universal Brotherhood. 
 
ENQUIRER. How? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. In the present state of society, especially in so-called civilized countries, we are continually brought face to face with the fact that large numbers of people are suffering from misery, poverty and disease. Their physical condition is wretched, and their mental and spiritual facultiesare often almost dormant. On the other hand, many persons at the opposite end of the social scale are leading lives of careless indifference, material luxury, and selfish indulgence. Neither of these forms of existence is mere chance. Both are the effects of the conditions which surround those who are subject to them, and the neglect of social duty on the one side is mostclosely connected with the stunted and arrested development on the other. In sociology, as in all branches of true science, the law of universal causation holds good. But this causation necessarily implies, as its logical outcome, that human solidarity on which Theosophy so strongly insists. If theaction of one reacts on the lives of all, and this is the true scientific idea, then it is only by all men becoming brothers and all women sisters, and by all practising in their daily lives true brotherhood and true sisterhood, that the real human solidarity, which lies at the root of the elevation of the race, can ever be attained. It is this action and interaction, this true brotherhood and sisterhood, in which each shall live for all and allfor each, which is one of the fundamental Theosophical principles that every Theosophist should be bound, not only to teach, but to carry out in his or her individual life. 
 
ENQUIRER. All this is very well as a general principle, but how would you apply it in a concrete way? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. Look for a moment at what you would call the concrete facts ofhuman society. Contrast the lives not only of the masses of the people, but of many of those who are called the middle and upper classes, with what they might be under healthier and nobler conditions, where justice, kindness, and love were paramount, instead of the selfishness, indifference, and brutality which now too often seem to reign supreme. All good and evil thingsin humanity have their roots in human character, and this character is, and has been, conditioned by the endless chain of cause and effect. But this conditioning applies to the future as well as to the present and the past. Selfishness, indifference, and brutality can never be the normal state of the race -- to believe so would be to despair of humanity -- and that no Theosophist can do. Progress can be attained, and only attained, by the development of the nobler qualities. Now, true evolution teaches us that by altering the surroundings of the organism we can alter and improve the organism;and in the strictest sense this is true with regard to man. Every Theosophist, therefore, is bound to do his utmost to help on, by all the means in his power, every wise and well-considered social effort which has for its object the amelioration of the condition of the poor. Such efforts should be made with a view to their ultimate social emancipation, or the development of the sense of duty in those who now so often neglect it in nearly every relation of life. 
 
ENQUIRER. Agreed. But who is to decide whether social efforts are wise or unwise? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. No one person and no society can lay down a hard-and-fast rulein this respect. Much must necessarily be left to the individual judgment.One general test may, however, be given. Will the proposed action tend to promote that true brotherhood which it is the aim of Theosophy to bring about? No real Theosophist will have much difficulty in applying such a test; once he is satisfied of this, his duty will lie in the direction of formingpublic opinion. And this can be attained only by inculcating those higher and nobler conceptions of public and private duties which lie at the root of all spiritual and material improvement. In every conceivable case he himself must be a centre of spiritual action, and from him and his own daily individual life must radiate those higher spiritual forces which alone can regenerate his fellow-men. 
 
ENQUIRER. But why should he do this? Are not he and all, as you teach, conditioned by their Karma, and must not Karma necessarily work itself out on certain lines? 
 
THEOSOPHIST. It is this very law of Karma which gives strength to all that I have said. The individual cannot separate himself from the race, nor the race from the individual. The law of Karma applies equally to all, althoughall are not equally developed. In helping on the development of others, the Theosophist believes that he is not only helping them to fulfil their Karma, but that he is also, in the strictest sense, fulfilling his own. It is the development of humanity, of which both he and they are integral parts, that he has always in view, and he knows that any failure on his part to respond to the highest within him retards not only himself but all, in their progressive march. By his actions, he can make it either more difficult or more easy for humanity to attain the next higher plane of being. 


***
'The future'
***
THE FUTURE OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
ENQUIRER. Tell me, what do you expect for Theosophy in the future? 

THEOSOPHIST. If you speak of THEOSOPHY, I answer that, as it has existed eternally throughout the endless cycles upon cycles of the Past, so it will ever exist throughout the infinitudes of the Future, because Theosophy is synonymous with EVERLASTING TRUTH. 

ENQUIRER. Pardon me; I meant to ask you rather about the prospects of the Theosophical Society. 

THEOSOPHIST. Its future will depend almost entirely upon the degree of selflessness, earnestness, devotion, and last, but not least, on the amount of knowledge and wisdom possessed by those members, on whom it will fall to carry on the work, and to direct the Society after the death of the Founders. 

ENQUIRER. I quite see the importance of their being selfless and devoted, but I do not quite grasp how their knowledge can be as vital a factor in thequestion as these other qualities. Surely the literature which already exists, and to which constant additions are still being made, ought to be sufficient? 

THEOSOPHIST. I do not refer to technical knowledge of the esoteric doctrine, though that is most important; I spoke rather of the great need which oursuccessors in the guidance of the Society will have of unbiassed and clearjudgment. Every such attempt as the Theosophical Society has hitherto ended in failure, because, sooner or later, it has degenerated into a sect, setup hard-and-fast dogmas of its own, and so lost by imperceptible degrees that vitality which living truth alone can impart. You must remember that all our members have been bred and born in some creed or religion, that all are more or less of their generation both physically and mentally, and consequently that their judgment is but too likely to be warped and unconsciously biassed by some or all of these influences. If, then, they cannot be freed from such inherent bias, or at least taught to recognise it instantly andso avoid being led away by it, the result can only be that the Society will drift off on to some sandbank of thought or another, and there remain a stranded carcass to moulder and die. 

ENQUIRER. But if this danger be averted? 


***

from
Sufilight with actions....

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Theos-World questions that trick us


> Dear Friends;
> 
> Could we try reversing that question:
> 
> How can corrupt politicians stand what Theosophy teaches ?
> 
> Most politicians would say: Please do not let others know what I have
> done.
> 
> Save me from having to bear the pain of my wrong doings.
> 
> 
> {Which implies that they/we knew they were wrong when they/we did
> them, and we now hope that silence and secrecy will prevail, and our
> selfish, evil actions or words will remain hidden. In other words we
> ask God, who
> is just and supreme, to connive at our baseness and evil. That does
> not sound right.)
> 
> I do not wish to discount those charitable and selfless politicians
> who are truly dedicated to serve their fellows.
> 
> The one concept that has been forgotten is: All one can do that i
> valuable in life is to serve others. In business we serve with advice
> or product distribution -- all service. This is vitiated when the
> greed and pride factors overcome the service and brotherhood factors.
> 
> And can any one expect a just and true system of living if we
> constantly expect Nature to be unjust ?
> 
> Do we truly expect God (or NATURE) to be UNJUST ? (I am using the
> word "GOD" to imply a set of impartial rules which guard and harmonize
> everything in life for all.)
> 
> Our ideas about justice, fairness, charity, compassion and the nature
> of GOD and his supposed powers are very strange -- and they need to be
> carefully examined.
> 
> Now let us look at the Theosophical view-point.
> 
> 1. God (Nature as a whole) is the UNIVERSAL IMPARTIAL AND IMPERSONAL
> SPIRITUAL DEIFIC
> PRINCIPLE. The spiritual ideals underlie all surface differences and
> appearances.
> 
> 2. It pervades ( is omnipresent) the whole of the Universe and all
> nature on our Earth.
> 
> 3. It supports all life, and is therefore impersonal, impartial, just,
> fair, and supports life in all creatures including good and bad
> humans.
> 
> 4. Since the PRESENCE OF GOD (and NATURES' RULE) is universal, every
> least creature (let us call it an "atom" or a "monad" is an
> indestructible, eternal LIFE in which a "ray" of the ONE SPIRIT is
> present.
> 
> 5. This universal presence of SPIRIT/God in all creatures makes
> BROTHERHOOD the ONE LAW of all life.
> 
> 6. We cannot entertain the idea of "separateness" or of "selfishness"
> and hope to live peacefully and in secret evil lives. { SPIRIT/God
> in its omnipresence is also said to be omniscient -- to know
> everything ) So there are NO SECRETS to the all-seeing eye of the one
> SPIRIT is immanent in the whole of Nature and in every single
> creature.
> 
> 7. Of what use is it to do evil and hurt or torture others if the only
> result is that the universal Law of NATURE (God) as Life notes our
> depredations, and, turning educative, reflects those same faults,
> hurts, tortures back on to us, so that WE FEEL THE EXACT RESULTS of
> all the harm and pain we have generated.
> 
> 8. The sole reasonable conclusion is: DO GOOD at every turn and to
> all.
> 
> And thus, our lives and works are positive and active prayers, and
> bring about the peace of harmony everywhere.
> 
> If we have to pray, then let us pray to the God within -- to that
> Divine Fragment secreted in the "heart" of our consciousness and
> intelligence. ( S D I 280 fn) Let us assure ourselves that idealism
> and excellence are present and not lost or abandoned because
> superficially people have been deprived of these ideas for their
> consideration from a very early age in their lives.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Dallas
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: Morten Sufilight
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 3:26 AM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World questions that trick us
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> A view:
> It is to make one say (or meditate) - ooh no - NOT THIS NOT THAT again
> and again.
> 
> A question:
> So how is Theosophy doing on corrupt politicians ?
> 
> from
> Sufilight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>