Theos-Talk Archives (June 2002 Message tt00085)

June 17 2002

Dear Bill:

Re: Your essay

I have read your essay. I would like to send you a response on the
basis of what I have learned from Theosophy. So please look on what I
write as something you can use to compare your grasp with mine. There
are similarities and differences.

I think yours is a great and good effort. I have always had
difficulty considering Christianity in treating the add-on aspects of
the "Old Testament" (with the "tribal god" Jehovah") with Jesus'
reforms of a moral/ethical quality, as found, for instance in the
SERMON ON THE MOUNT.

In no way does He indicate a continuation of the Jehovah = God
identification. [ I U II 165, 527,] Theologians have done that.
Theologians have tacked on the Old Testament, and yet at all turns
they (many "Christians") vilify the Jews, and defame any one who
happens to be of that race, sight unseen. That is hardly "brotherly,"
or impartial. [ Have you seen or read David Pratt's essay on THE
ORIGINS OF CHRISTIANITY -- published in FOHAT Magazine (Vol. 6 #1)
for Spring 2002 ? It shows up some of the historical inconsistencies
which the Gospels, as presently translated, contain, and are found to
narrate. ]

There is no record of Him as an "incarnate God" [ see: I U II 150,
193, 239, 393, 455, 544, ]

In response, let me make some suggestions, some lines of thought for
you to consider -- they are based on my understanding of what is
taught in the SECRET DOCTRINE and the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY.

Note: as they are my understanding, they may be slightly different
from yours and I may also be inaccurate.

No single being of any intelligence or dimension has the WISDOM of the
ALL-BEING. As I understand it this "All-Being" is termed in Theosophy
the "ABSOLUTE" and is said to be an eternal "background" -- an
indescribable whole which transcends the divisions of what we think of
as "Spirit," and "Matter," as also of "Mind." From IT, these three
are derived, or rather "emanated." It has no attributes and cannot be
described. That is because we are under the rule of the limits of
matter and form, and it is entirely devoid of those.

In saying this, let me not leave the impression that this is "GOD."
No. It transcends, philosophically, as "THE ONE REALITY," all else.

We might say (inaccurately) that it is the "container of all." And by
"all" I mean the Galactic Universe on one hand, and the most minute of
existences in the sub-atomic worlds on the other.

If the term "spirit" we use, refers indefinitely to "Perfection," and
if "matter" by the same token, means to most of us the limitations of
some degree of imperfection, then the balance between them is
established by a "mind" that understands them both. Mankind, you and
me, are such MIND/SOULS.

You have struck the fundamental chord: MAN IS A SOUL. To that add
that the SOUL is the MIND and could not exist unless:

"God" or the DEIFIC PRINCIPLE were omnipresent.

God is not a "Being" but a RULE OF LAWS which tend towards the
perfection of all beings.

Laws could not operate unless there was WISDOM. Wisdom is the total
of that experience acquired by all beings -- universally, and by
individual "souls" through experience. "Experience" could not be had
unless the DEIFIC PRINCIPLE employed an aspect of itself to present
the limits of "substance" or matter, in which to, itself, inhere --
and to live and act there through.


So you see, in my way of thinking and writing:

DEITY may be called SPIRIT. Matter may be called "flesh." Mind may
be called that link of intelligence that bridges the difference
between the ONE LIFE and all its many aspects.

"Matter" is an aspect of the eternal DEITY which for the time being
assumes what appears to be a "lesser position." However,
philosophically, in terms of ultimate fact, it is only and forever the
same as SPIRIT. In Theosophy this is explained in The SECRET DOCTRINE
by using the word "Monad."

The "Monad" is an indestructible and eternal unit of
SPIRIT/MATTER/MIND. All three are inevitably conjoined, and are that
which is called the "Eternal Pilgrim." The Universe in every portion
and without exception is made up of Monads at all stages of progress,
from the chaotic and primordial "monadic essence" to the most high
position as a living and actual "Son of God." It is held in Theosophy
that Jesus was one of these, at the very top of the ladder of
evolution, an Adept, a Prophet with WISDOM -- and his work was to the
Jews of his time and for their betterment.

They rejected Him. At least most did. The "Gentiles" then accepted
him and welcomed the "church" and from those beginnings,
"Christianity" arose. Jesus is thus held in Theosophy to be a most
respected member of the "Sons of God." Their mission, as a group as
well as individually, has always been to keep the truths and ethical
precepts of Nature/GOD alive and known to humanity. Should there be
any dispute or question as to the existence of a group of immortal
MIND/SOULS then we ought to set to work and compare the teachings and
ethical precepts of great Prophets who cam earlier or later than Jesus
to other peoples: for instance, the Buddhists, the Zoroastrians, the
Tibetans, and the Hindus, as well as the various South American
tribes. We know comparatively little about the Egyptians and the old
Greeks and of Scandinavia and the Druids, as most of their works have
been destroyed. But those who have made those comparisons are struck
by their great similarities and the open-hearted attempt to provide
humanity, at various times, and in various areas with moral and
ethical codes that are logical and based on the omnipresence,
omniscience, and omnipotence of the ONE DEITY.

One argument ought to be persuasive and that is we have such a short
view of prehistory. Enormous gaps of time in the near East and the
West divide Buddhism, Hinduism, and ancient Chinese beliefs from us.
We look on them as static and almost effete, and therefore few of us
are well acquainted with their systems of philosophy and ethics.
Being eager to put our cause forward, we often neglect a comparative
study of Christianity and those more ancient systems. You will find
for instance in ISIS UNVEILED that H P B advances information
concerning Buddhist monasteries established on the shores of Galilee
and that Jesus visited and debated with the monks there, prior to
going on exile into Egypt [ I U II 63-5, 123, 266, 337-9, 341, 386,
550-3, 565-6 . Another point is that Jesus lived for some 80 years
and died by lapidation. [I U II 73, 255, 339-40, 545. 566 ]

There is no gap between history and the development of a theology.
There is no diminution of Jesus, rank and stature by a close
examination of what he did and what he taught. But, I do not see how,
without tremendous effort, the gap today -- between his "original
teachings," and the travesty we have today, as a set of dogmas and
creeds, and the adoption of the various English translations of the
BIBLE -- can be closed. Mme. Blavatsky showed the way in ISIS
UNVEILED, which ought to be carefully read.

To resume my comments: Speaking in the most general terms

Manifestation and progress then provides by the background of
impersonal, eternal and universal LAW, the necessary experiences that
forge the consciousness of Self animated by an immortal MIND/SOUL.

The Mind/Soul has to be independent of both SPIRIT ( GOD ) and
"Matter." The Mind/Soul forms the link between God transcendent and
God immanent, the latter being all the "creatures" including Man.

Man is a specialized "creature" -- as an immortal Monad (
indestructible and eternal) it has passed in experience over an
immense period of time through all the situations afforded by several
"kingdoms" -- the mineral, vegetable, animal and now finds itself as a
SELF-CONSCIOUS being in the "human-kingdom."

In this the human kingdom, "Man" the undying Soul, employs his
independence to direct his own educational program. He has the
independence to be able to observe, think and choose. He can sense
the laws and the rules of life which interpenetrate and pertain to all
beings (creatures). Successive incarnations are viewed as progressive
"classes"
in a vast School.

He can, if he chooses to be perverse, try to disobey and break the
rules of LIFE. That is when the immutable deific laws and rules come
into action and produce a reform situation for that individual, and
others who might also be involved, we call "Karma." The reform is
created around each individual Mind/Soul by its own choices and its
motives for action, speech, thought and feeling or emotion -- as "Man
the Soul" operates on those areas of action and reaction. Being
immortal some aspects of its Karma are carried over into the next
incarnation/s.

When the response from Nature is pleasant we say "Good Karma." When
the response is painful, we say " Bad Karma." In all cases the
pressure of situations and conditions we notice is an educative one.
These tend to make the inner motives and choices clear to others. The
exposure of what one considers to be private is perhaps the most
painful psychological suffering. For this Nature desires every one of
us to know and understand that as BROTHERS, we cannot act selfishly
and hope that that will pass unnoticed. GOD (or Nature) in Its
omnipresence, notes everything and then proves to set adjustments into
progress, to heal and to teach.

Nature -- which is God IMMANENT and OMNIPRESENT -- reacts to all that
any one does and as it encompasses everything at all levels. It
constantly acts as "conscience" and "intuition." It presents images
to the independent Mind/Soul of excellence, altruism and idealism. It
serves as an inspiration, and in those cases where Man responds to the
INFINITE and the OMNIPRESENT it is a moment of prophecy. The justice,
the mercy, the brotherhood of all beings is exposed and made clear.

In a way, when such experiences occur, we could say that the Man, the
Soul which is evolving its deific consciousness stands before (or
rather, within) the "All-Father" -- the UNIVERSAL GOD and either
comprehends the incident or is overwhelmed by it.

I hope that you will not mind my lengthy reply and to only a portion
of your essay, but perhaps you might consider some of the reasonings I
advance

Do let me know if these are found to be helpful.

Best wishes,

Dallas

-----Original Message-----
From: Will Q
Sent:	Saturday, June 15, 2002 6:37 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Loving our Karma S D Fuit of the TREE OF WISDOM

Dallas,

I always enjoy your posts. They do well at reminding us all of the
essential
points of Theosophy's philosophy.

Now I would like to ask you a question. About a month ago our leader,
Larry,
posted a notice that the net was announcing that I had created a short
essay
on the main ingredients that we have to understand about the cycle of
Theosophy. It is available by calling up
(http://www.lifeafterlife.org). He
also noted that I was eager to get Email comments either posted on
our net
for others to see or personal. Since that time, however, my counter
tells
me that 71 persons have called up my essay. Whether they are all
from our
net or casual when brousing the net and/or reapeats of the same
person, I do
not know because I have not received one single comment. What I would
like
to hear from knowledgeable people like yourself is whether I have
handled
segments like Karma properly. For instance, one of my goals is to
get Karma
and its differences compared to how we seem to only casually pay
attention to
our responsibilities as Christians. Few sermons emphasize Jesus
Sermon on
the Mount and what it daily requires of Christians or how we should
be aware
of the ripple effect on others as a result of our daily actions..

Thanks for listening and I also invite not only your comments, but
those from
other readers concerning the contents and usefullness of the essay as
an
introduction to Theosophy and how it handles different parts of the
life and
death cycle so that they can be studied by themselves.

Bill Q