Theos-Talk Archives (June 2002 Message tt00018)

June 5th 2002


Dear Gerry, and Friends:

In answer to what you write, let me say for myself, and using what
knowledge that Theosophy has given, and which I think I have grasped
to some extent:

I trust myself. I consult the doctor.

My doctor consults with me and recommends treatments. When I don't
understand things, I ask, or seek several other opinions. Science and
medicine are a part of my learning as an old-time scientific editor.
I have learned to take nothing unreservedly. I decide to accept or
reject those. I do not believe that we are in any way limited to
certain narrow pieces of information about our world and its
potentials. I believe we have the capacity to learn and understand
anything wee place or desire and mind on grasping.

I bestow my trust on those who have demonstrated and proved their
impartiality and care for others in an honest and sincere way. But
even so, when they offer advice I consider it carefully and critically
before adopting it, and then I test its use as I go.

"Faith" is always chancy. But there are times when one has to choose
the best of several alternatives and employ ones' discrimination. My
advice is to always seek the best advice possible, but always rely on
one's own judgment before adopting such advice or making changes.
Then, carefully watch and study results as they develop

As to demonstration and proof -- at least the power to think is being
stimulated. The nature of the INNER INDIVIDUAL (by whatever name or
designation) is being more clearly perceived.

A reason for existence and a reason for action, in view of a potential
beneficial future (if we are in fact IMMORTALS in our Real Natures as
Spiritual-Souls) has become a matter for some far closer attention
than before, and for a lot of people, who by now, want to know more
about what they can do with themselves, and by themselves.

As to "gurus" why must any one venture to search for some "outside
guru ?" Is the "guru" a crutch? If we are immortals then the ATMA
that is undying, is the TRUE INNER GURU, and all our attention ought
to be directed to finding and securing its help in our embodied
mind-state. If you have a copy of The SECRET DOCTRINE, then on p.
167, Vol. II is a most significant and interesting statement.

I don't know how else to express it.

To "know God," one does not need the claims or presence of a "priest."
But one has to sense the unity of our Selves (as a SPIRITUAL MIND --
BUDDHI-MANAS) in all ways with the rest of nature. The "omnipresence"
of the God-Principle is either a fact or a fiction. But if true that
that DEITY is everywhere present, and is accessible.

For this reason I think that the First Object of the THEOSOPHICAL
SOCIETY : UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD ( the establishment of a nucleus
for such) was put out first and forward. The next and most important
series of statements are (to me) in The SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I, pp.
14 - 19.

Best wishes,

Dallas

-----Original Message-----
From: gschueler@earthlink.net [mailto:gschueler@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 8:20 AM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: Re to Dallas -- Faith & Trust


<<<Blind faith or belief in any persona is fatal.>>>

Dallas, this is extreme and you know it. You trust your doctors don't
you? When you eat out you have to trust the chef. We all have to trust
other people every day. Personally I trust my wife with my life. I
trust my children. I trust a whole lot of people. Goodness you seem to
have a very negative view of people.


<<<Persons usually have some biases. Rare is it to find one who is so
honest that they disclaim any authority at all. Run away from any one
who says to you : TRUST ME.>>>

I have so many poeple telling me to trust them (bankers, lawyers,
nieghbors, doctors, co-workers, merchants, etc) that I would be hard
pressed to run away from them all.


<<<Putting one's trust in a philosophy, or a science, or logic, or
maths, that one (or any one) has proved repeatedly to be fair and
impartial -- is quite another matter.>>>

Why? Trust is trust, and faith is faith. You seem to trust the written
words of dead people more than the spoken words of living people,
Dallas. I wonder why?


<<<In theosophy we work together to find the truth of things. We
believe NOTHING.>>>

Words, words words. Theosophy is itself a belief system or worldview,
Dallas. I think you are kidding yourself. As rebuttal, tell me what
you have proved so far. You have been a Theosophist for many years,
Dallas, and a good one. What have you proved? What have you
demonstrated? What can you demonstrate to me? Can you give an honest
answer even to yourself? Where are there any Theosophists "working
together to find the truth of things?" I look around and see them
reading and studying and trying to put concepts they found in books
into their daily lives, but I see so "truth" no "proof" and no
"demonstrations." In fact, I see a lack of any real understanding
about those very concepts. In Christian Science, we healed and
"proved" the truth of this religion every day. How do Theosophists
prove their Theosophy?
If you are going to post statements like the above, the least you can
do is back them up with something.


<<< We ask for demonstrations and proofs.>>>

There are no "proofs" -- if there were everyone would be a
Theosophist. Surely you know that. Where are your proofs? Why don't
you show them to the world? Why are Theosophists less than half of one
percent of the population?


<<< We don't seek for people to agree with us, but rather for them to
follow the lines of common sense and learn to seek for the causes and
the reasons for things as they are now found -- starting with the
basic questions:
Who am I? What am here to do? where can I go ?>>>

Perhaps the real problem here is that Exoteric Theosohy is not common
sense.
Nor is esoteric Theosophy for that matter. If a person knew "who am I"
then they wouldn't need to "seek" any more, would they? Common sense
tells us that we have a self that is separate from a not-self, yet
common sense is wrong. Common sense tells us that the external world
exists independently from our minds. And again common sense is wrong.

Dallas, with such an attitude, such an untrusting nature: How will you
ever find a guru or learn from one? Shame, but its your choice. How
does one so enmeshed in manas get out of it?

When the student is ready the guru will appear -- until one can
recognize a guru and put their ego (alias manas) aside enough to trust
him or her, they are not ready.

Have a nice day.

Jerry S.

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