Theos-Talk Archives (May 2002 Message tt00133)

>Dear Frank:

>What I mean is that H P B was "under training" in my esteem since at
>least 1851 when she met her Master in Hyde Park in London. She was
>then 20 /21 years old.

Dear Dallas, I agree with the above.

>She met Olcott in 1873/4 before the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY was started.

Agreed.

>It appears from all accounts that Olcott went under "training" in 1874
>and H P B was the person who guided him and with whom he worked. If I
>am counting correctly H P B had been under "training" from the Masters
>for at least 22 or 23 years. Olcott was just beginning in 1874.

Agreed. Addition: It was not Olcott alone who where trained, but one or two
other Europeans, too. Or at least they entered the probationer level. There
are several degrees of chelaship as you may know.

>It was H P B who had direct contact with the Masters all the time, as
>I read the accounts of the time. [ And, H P B's and the Masters'
>letters to Sinnett. Those are my sources.]

Agreed. Only a fit chela is able to have active contacts with his teacher. A
lay chela is only able to have passive contact with his teacher.

>Olcott had occasional contacts. That can be seen from OLD DIARY
>LEAVES (Olcott).

Agreed. Active communication is only possible after certain training. Chelas
of the lower degrees are not fit to do that.
Even the receivement of passive communication in case of a lay chela, a
chela of a low degree or a worldly person is done via a higher chela who
acts as the transmitter.
To speak plain, it would not have been possible for HSO to receive
communication without a higher chela in the background. This was in general
HPB in his case.

>If anything we might guess that H P B was the "Guru" and Olcott was
>the "chela."

Yes, from a certain point of point, speaking general. From a deeper point of
view HSO was the chela, HPB the adept and the Master the guru. With Judge it
was a little bit different. He started also as a chela under the guardiance
of HPB:., but of another degree then HSO. During the 1880's he was able to
raise to the adept position.
One task of an adept in the outer world may be described as being a
messenger of an intermediate link. This is the esoteric background of both
the first two messengers when they prayed to their chelas: Keep the link
unbroken.

So you may see that I understand you well what you mean.

My point was that Doss argument is too short when he sees a contradiction
when HPB smokes etc. She could do what she wanted in 1874 as she has had
finished her training for her mission.


-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Reit
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 12:43 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2 questions

Dallas, I don't understand your reply. All you write is clear and
agreed.


But the point was that Doss sees a contradition between the
requirements for
training in chelaship and the behaviour of both HPB and HSO in 1873.


My argument is that neither HPB and HSO were actually under training
for
chelaship in 1873, don't?


Or will you tell me that the Masters send out a messenger who is not
fit?
Frank

DTB Read the MAHATMA LETTERS and decide for yourself.

Best wishes,

Dallas




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