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RE: EMOTIONS Why have talk lists?

Apr 10, 2002 05:07 PM
by dalval14

Wednesday, April 10, 2002

Dear Geog and Friends:

You are welcome to use what I send. No. I do not need to be cited unless that is required.

Glad to be of help. Better still.

Pick up the trend on my thinking and see if you agree with its logic. Then if you grasp it, use it.

You may be asked to defend your view point, in which case you should be prepared. Do your own thinking and see if the reasoning is useful and manageable. All I try to advance are the principles that Theosophy advocates that we all use. In this theosophy includes all sciences, religions and philosophies without in any way condemning or seeking to alter what has already been set into effect. It goes direct to each individual and suggests that they do the evaluation themselves. it is not a crutch. it does away with crutches.

We do in thinking and in logic (PHILOSOPHY), that which the rules of arithmetic and geometry do all the time for mathematics, physics, and chemistry. It's the same process with logic and thinking. We have to develop a grasp of the fundamentals of psychology, and of thinking, and then use these as aregular set of tools, and be prepared to show how they work in ourselves as the primary testing ground -- to others. Let them do their own work.

No one can teach anything to another -- in fact, as the process of learningis always based on the desire of the pupil to learn, and, to prove for himself the validity of some information which he acquires from others (or by his own observation) he always is verifying the accuracy of his own deductions. A "teacher" has the difficult task of opening those doors and windowsthat he or she found valuable, to other minds, so that they can look out and see for themselves.

A good teacher always teaches the pupil how to think, where he can find data that is reliable, and then, how he can develop it. But he also points to the fact that there are distortions of truth and there are true facts. Thepupil learns to discriminate as he experiences, searches and proceeds.

We can never blame another for our adopting on "blind faith" anything. Noris it wise to accept any one as a "Leader." We have to ultimately make the choice to follow, or to FIND OUT for ourselves. No matter what, it is WEWHO HAVE TO CHOOSE. This is what Theosophy always point to -- the power of the individual (who is inherently a free mind, and an immortal) to choose. Now place these views against the dogmatism and fanaticism of religionsand political platforms, and see if those match up to the level of real human responsibility and the stature of the free man and free woman. Do they respect that freedom, or do they seek to bind people to a specific and unexplained set of rules and objectives ? Do they enfranchise or do they bind ?

That is why the 3 FUNDAMENTALS of The SECRET DOCTRINE ( Vol. I pp 14 -19 ) are so useful.

1 The UNIVERSALITY OF LIFE -- as a Powerful current that runs throughall beings -- like electricity it channels and organizes all the supportive processes. Science in its examination of the departments of Nature has proved this to be a fact.

In the realm of the modern psychological sciences there is uncertainty. The exact nature of man is not grasped. The conflict lies between two poles of thought: Man as a reactive object, or Man as a creative and self-generating AGENT. In this equation the question of moral and ethical values are to be considered. Science seems to avoid them. They are held to be unprovable, and yet the "statutes and laws" of every country I have ever been to (about 100) in this life have almost exactly similar definitions of proper,virtuous and legal behaviour as well as communal behaviour and probity among all humans and especially among neighbours.

The reason for this is the fact that the brain, as a physical organ, made up of chemicals and bio-structures is an instrument so enormously complex, is said therefore to be able to embrace any concept regardless of size, shape or age. When asked why this is so, physiology and psychology cannot answer. They then make up theories. These theories are based on observed REACTIONS to stimuli, but, they do not account for spontaneous and self-chosenthought.

Further, although the brain and its etiology, or development, is complex and not to be understood entirely by analysis, the problem is cut short by the observations of a complexity so enormous that no instrument yet devised can encompass all the many diversities of the Mind. It is only natural thatscience being self-limited to MATERIALS has grown to posit, accept and believe (without adequate proof) that the physical complexity at some stage develops a sense of IDENTITY and assumes an INDIVIDUALITY. The exact CAUSE for this is not clear, but the evidence of their observation has proved thateach atom is slightly different from others of the same kind, and further when we get to the great mass that form the human physical form the range of difference in character and INDIVIDUALITY is so enormous that no two individuals are clones or exactly the same.

So they hesitate to say that the CAUSE of one's identity is something that is infra-physical --a force or power, perhaps electrical and magnetic in quality, which galvanizes the physical form into a special kind of intelligence and consciousness. The mystery of the source of desires and of the power to think are many.

In steps Theosophy, which says that the material is entirely the product ofthe development and the specialization of character, based on the spiritual nature of each individual -- and that specialization begins with SPIRIT which is not definable with physical instrumentation alone. It then proceeds ( in The SECRET DOCTRINE) to describe the process of the involution of the SPIRIT into material forms, and finally we have ourselves: Mind beings encased in gross physical matter.

What they have not arrived at, as a conclusion, is the fact that this harmony is directed by the same potentiality -- the SPIRITUAL FORCE -- which lies in every atom as well as in every mind. These unite and make any thought, any feeling and any deed possible.

Now that is a lot to say and perhaps some of that is useful.

The interesting part of all this is, that we can close our physical eye andopen our mental perception, step aside from the physical brain and its many thoughts, and start to think as a detached spiritual and independent ENTITY; and then, look at our embodied consciousness and the physical instrument (including the brain) as a sensitive, vibrant and useful tool, -- and the vehicle of our consciousness when we are awake and functioning on the physical plane of every-day living. We can in fact demonstrate to ourselves that the 7 "principles" of our human nature are facts. The Mind and the Feeling Nature are two separate and different functions and powers. Interdependent -- yes. But not identical, nor are they entirely dependent on one-another.

2. The second Fundamental is the statement that the entire Universe and everything in it, visible and invisible IS RULED BY LAWS. That is only reasonable when we see how cooperative and supportive is the entire condition. Even those who maintain that there is chaos and uncertainty are forced to concede that CHAOS has Laws and rules, but, that they have not yet identified them. Everything that exists has a SOURCE, a CAUSE, and every one ofthe root causes is found to be on the invisible, the psychic and the spiritual side of nature; and in fact, is either a desire or a thought and a PLAN is associated with it. This is a universal fact.

3. The third is found to be AN INNATE URGE present in every being TO IMPROVE, TO GROW in intelligence; and in the human being this personal intelligence, develops into self-consciousness and independence. This, in mankind, produces the urge to learn. This is UNIVERSAL EVOLUTION. Here three forces combine. Let me show you this concept:

I will use the ancient Hindu scripture of 5,000 years ago named the BHAGAVAD GITA .

In the BHAGAVAD GITA, Krishna the Sage teacher describes the Universe, our Earth and ourselves in terms of the 3 "Gunas" or qualities.

All that is said in the BHAGAVAD GITA is a dissertation on the work we can do with ourselves as we battle through the snares of delusion (maya) and seek the Light of Truth complete.

He declares that the entire universe in manifestation is a compound of these three "qualities."

1. Sattva or Spirit, truth and purity, this is wisdom and is always universal, impersonal, and available to all who seek it. It is an idea of a single goal for all: Sublime Perfection.

2. Rajas or Action, desire, passion, motives, and thinking -- all change, all movement whether regulated and carefully controlled, or, unregulated and whimsical.

3. Tamas or Matter, inertia, ignorance selfishness -- all the many forms. [See chapters 14, 17, 18 in the book ]

What is also made clear, is that there are endless permutations and combinations of these three basics -- accounting for the many types and kinds of "personalities" and "Individualities." We can see their presence and activity in us if we meditate, and are introspective, by the process called "self-examination."

In mankind the Mind is dual because it lies midway between the spiritual and the TRUE and the material and the illusions of ignorance and fancy. Thisis what makes our lives so difficult because we are usually trapped by thedelusions we developed and obtained when we were young and growing up under the influence of others. We let them shape our lives. Now that we havegrown intelligent to some extent we want to take over our own progress. But, usually we have a very tough time because the habits of our past and their memories tend to make us repeat the errors we had adopted then.

In point of fact, in us, it is the Higher Manas (the spiritual and altruistic mind) which is appealed
to by the highest aspect of the Lower Manas [ that is the lower materialistic embodied mind mix=ed with feelings and desires] The Higher, that which is virtuous and seeks for the truth of things. Being invoked, the Higher Manas places, as on a screen, a picture of the things the lower Manas hasdone, reviews them impersonally in terms of their value, and lets the Lower Manas decide what course of action he will decide to pursue. Some call this the admonitions of the Voice of Conscience, and others call it the workings of the Intuition.

It is amply clear that in us, the Higher, the SPIRITUAL aspect of ourselves-- always acts as an advisor, and the progress of self-evolution by which our embodied mind purified itself is always under its free control. The motives for action which shape our future are always our own.

He (Krishna) calls this the "lower" aspect of himself ( the "material Universe in manifestation."). And he declares that there is the PARAMATMA, theSupreme Spirit, and that this is separate and not
involved in the evolutionary process. He states that He is this Paramatma -- the Universal Sage and Teacher [see S D I 207-8 for an explanation].

He uses the curious expression " I am in them, but they are not in Me." This would seem to imply that the Spiritual consciousness of the REAL MAN -- the Eternal Pilgrim -- is unaffected by conditions, situations, trials, tribulations of suffering or of pleasure.

In the S D I pp 174-5 footnote we are given an explanation of the part played by the Monad. [The Monad is a word used to indicate the smallest as well as the larges aggregation of the 2 polar opposites: SPIRIT and MATTER.Those are always present in each form that manifests.] It says there that the lower consciousness (also the condition of the Monads of lesser experience which have aggregated around the SPIRITUAL MONAD) have to cling to that DIVINE MONAD as to a "plank of salvation." A curious phrase -- a seeming indifference.

One may wonder at this. It is a paradox, since this Divine Monad [ a unitthat has become by self-effort fully conscious of the entire Universe] is karmically sent down into this world of limitations, of maya and of trials.For what reason? Let us consider this Monad as a divine Man, as one who has passed through all the experiences and learning situations that this, and many earlier periods of
manvantaric evolution, have provided. It, the UNIVERSAL INDIVIDUAL -- the KNOWER -- and one might say: He knows everything.

In the S D I pp 207 -210 we are given an very significant, an important view of such a Divine Personage, of a Man-Mind that has universalized itself-- a Being who sacrifices his position of supreme wisdom and power, so as to remain as a "sign-post" at the doorway to the ABSOLUTE --as a symbol of encouragement. This is the source of the idea of doing sacred actions (sacrifice) and of UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD. One might surmise that in the MAHATMA LETTERS this is the Personage to which the Mahatmas refer as the "Chohan."

In the 10th chapter of the BHAGAVAD GITA he (Krishna, the Higher Self) speaks of Arjuna (the highest aspect of the embodied mind in a human) as his pupil and the best of Men -- and it is hinted that we, the human minds, areall "Arjunas." Each of us has a "Krishna" a divine tutor within. Now if this is true, then how ought we to live our lives?

In this way we find out that with knowledge and wisdom comes responsibility. Since we are the Eternal pilgrims, and cannot escape this condition, we have ample time in this or some future
incarnation, to learn and verify, and then employ this information as a basis for living.

Best wishes,



-----Original Message-----
From: G. Curnutt []
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:38 AM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: Re: EMOTIONS Why have talk lists?

Wow Dallas! I really like this one. With your permission, I would like to
use parts of it in my Interpersonal Communication class. I will cite you of

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: "Theosophy Study List" <>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:40 AM
Subject: RE: EMOTIONS Why have talk lists?

Tuesday, April 09, 2002

Re: Emotions What are they ?

Emotions, Theosophy says, are intermediate between our personal and
physical nature and the Mind which is also one of our "principles." Further
there is in each of us the "Real Human Being" which is the Witness, and the
Perceiver. It controls the Mind and the emotions as well as the body.

Here are some interesting statements culled from the original teachings of
theosophy that throw light on this important subject of our study and our
present being.


-----Original Message-----
From: John
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 3:42 PM
Subject: [bn-study] (((Mark, Louis)))

I don't wish to argue, nor cause contention, but feel I
must at least clarify my post on Universal Brotherhood, and
the responses.



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