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Mar 31, 2002 06:23 PM

by leonmaurer

In a message dated 03/23/02 3:51:32 PM, bri_mue@yahoo.com writes: ' [Quoting Jerry Schueler, followed by the usual hodgepodge of non sequitur historical and illogically prejudiced "proofs" (snipped) that the theosophical chakra system of 7 fold coadunate but not consubstantial fields is a false, unscientific view.] >Jerry: I find this something like using a shoe horn to get a small >shoe onto a large foot. I take this "antiquity" business with a grain >of salt. There is absolutely NO reason that anyone can show as to why >7 is necessary or better than 6 or 5. The Enochian system works well >with 6. Tibetan Buddhism works well with 5. Seven is arbitrary. >You will seldom find any 7-sheath models in Hinduism or Buddhism or >Vedanta. Row was a Theosophist and was reaching. Most schemes have >five or six sheaths. And are these sheaths principles or bodies? It >is still confusing. Judge and Besant both confounded bodies and >principles as if they were the same thing. G de P says that each >principle has a corresponding body or vehicle (upadhi). HPB says that >each plane is associated with a principle. And so it goes, with >Theosophists today still arguing and debating on what it all means. >This sevenfold division is very arbitrary and is NOT the way things >are experienced. It is purely a Theosophical methodology and if we >can all accept that, we will be better off. There is nothing wrong >with having our own divisions of 7, and such a division works well >for me, but we need to recognize and accept that it is arbitrary and >NOT some kind of law of nature. The above statements indicate that your ideas are perhaps based on literally interpreted dogmas that fit with your own preconceptions and with your, possibly, mistaken interpretations of the Buddha's as well as HPB's teachings -- which are quite paradoxical within themselves -- since both teachers were faced with two opposite states of existence along with all the possible intermediate states, further confounded by their language barriers or losses in translation. Therefore, we must be very careful to look at their contrary statements about divisions of space with very careful consideration of the contextual nature as well as the stage of involution and/or evolution they are referring to -- coupled with a thorough understanding of and ability to apply fundamental principles -- before making any judgments that we are tempted to cut in stone. Maybe we should also stop looking at contradictory historical ideas and other people's concepts to gain knowledge of metaphysical truths, and start thinking for ourselves based on fundamental principles... That is, to scientifically derive in our own minds where all these different divisions come from, and how they fit in with the overall truth; Which is that, the differentiation's of primary space and its fundamental "spinergy" is ultimately infinitely divisible... With "strange attractors" along the way that bring, at different stages, differing degrees of order out of the initial chaos. Thus the basic divisions or "orders," "phases," "planes," "fields," etc., could be any number from two to a googolplex. Although, the lower numbers from two to twenty-one tend to repeat themselves periodically along the way. Therefore, there's no reason for the divisions of "coadunate but not consubstantial fields" of nature not to be based on fundamental laws of energy involution and evolution, starting from their zero (laya) points of origin. Since this starting point is composed solely of abstract motion or circular spin, its emanations must obey the fixed laws of cycles and periodicity which govern all the harmonics of vibrational energy fields -- regardless of their spectrums, phases or orders of frequency -- from astral light to physical sound (and even lower to gravitational waves). Therefore, all the field involution's must follow the same laws of musical harmony -- which can be divided into either octaval, decimal or duodecimal scales -- as HPB repeatedly pointed out. As for these divisions, they can also be broken down into two, three, four, five, six, seven, ten, twelve, etc., subdivisions or harmonics. Since complete harmonies on the physical plane can be generated, starting with the simplest seven fold system, this is the basis of choosing the 7 chakras which correspond with the octaval musical harmonies, and color scales or spectrums we directly experience. But, in some cultures where their musical scales are based on the decimal or duodecimal system, it is common to choose such a "chakra" (center) or "sheath" (field) system (to describe the human "nature") -- that can be divided into either 3, 4, 5, or 6 fields -- depending on the particular nature (spiritual, psychological, material, etc.) of the involved or evolved field effects that is being discussed. Thus, some "magical" systems are based on the 5 divisions and others on the 6 divisions. (For reasons there is no need to go into here.) But, fundamentally, all these systems are governed by the same scientific laws related to the coadunate but not consubstantial coenergetic and cyclic field nature of the universe (along with the analogous inner natures of all the beings involved and evolved within it). These laws of harmony as well as of analogy and correspondence are described in mystic parlance as, "The music of the spheres" and "As above, so below." Another good study practice, is to visualize the varying linear geometry's of the initial involution of the nonlinear circular forces -- using both the linear left and nonlinear right brain thought processes, simultaneously. For example, from a geometric point of view, at the zero-point, in order to linearly describe the primal at(o)mic 3 dimensional spherical state after initial emanation of the zero (laya) point's "spinergy," there would be, fundamentally, only three directional lines passing through that center point at right angles -- each line pointing in opposite directions. Thus the initial 3-dimensional spherical field can be represented in linear geometry by the 6 directions, up-down, left-right, front-back -- which, by connecting their axial end points, forms an inscribed octahedron or double pyramid diamond figure that has 3 axes, 6 outer points and 1 center point, as well as 8 triangular sides and 12 edges. This is the simplest inscribed linear geometry (that can also be transformed into a cube, which has 1 center point, 8 outer points, 6 sides and 12 edges) -- representing, analogously, the nonlinear spherical geometry of the 3 cycle primary energy radiation and its divisions into triune, coadunate but not consubstantial fields that forms the primal "Monad." (See the diagrams at: http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html/ ) Thus -- since the octahedron is the simplest analogous form, with its 7 zero-points of origin and conjunction of subsequent evolutionary fields (all based on the initial 3 cycle triune "monad" consisting of 1 outer field and 2 inscribed inner fields) -- it is most natural to use the initial seven division system as the fundamental nature of the macrocosm, or Cosmos, that is directly reflected in the microcosm, or Mankind (that also relates directly to our three dimensional physical universe). This corresponds with the primal involution formula in the Book of Dzyan, "The 3, the 1, the 4, the 1, the 5, the twice 7, the sum total." (Thus, the 7 above, and the 7 below -- as the first numerological description of the analogous relationship between the "chakra-fields" of the macrocosm and those of the microcosm.) This is the fundamental and lawful mathematical (geometrical and topological) basis of all theosophical metaphysics. And, is the root of all other systems, each of which is based on one of the seven points of view of the initial triune spin field. Unfortunately, the current basis of scientific thought, while it can look into and describe the physical universe from its six outer or objective points of view, does not consider the equally valid inner central or subjective point of view -- and, thus, cannot experience or determine the nature of the multidimensional inner, coadunate but not consubstantial fields that are enclosed and contained by the relatively eternal at(o)mic field. This octaval scheme, of course, has nothing to do with magic -- since it is used only to describe the fundamental or primary 7 fold nature of Cosmogenesis and its reflection in corresponding fields of human consciousness, along with the linking of the dual spiritual nature, through the dual psychic nature, with the dual physical nature through their 5 intermediate connecting zero-points tying these dual fields together. In addition, there are the 2 outer points linking the higher and lower (frequency) order fields (Atma and physical) with the surrounding universal fields (Mahatma and Fohat). Thus, totaling 7 chakra points in all -- which, correlated with the initial at(o)mic triad, gives us the total of ten as expressed in the so called "Trees of life," (symbolized either circularly or linearly, depending on whether we look at the paths either as 8 nonlinear c oadunate spherical fields and 3 zero points as 8 linear geometrical divisions of the octahedron and three primary axes). That, incidentally, is the basis of the three plus seven fold, four level spherical chakra system that is analogous with the similarly numbered linear system -- since the zero-points and their surrounding coenergetic fields are, by necessity, with respect to the perpendicular force of gravity and the symmetry of the human body, lined up along the vertical axis. Ref: the SD linear drawings of the Rounds and Races, and the Sephirothal tree, as well as the symbolic initial involution field drawing at the above mentioned web site. These seven points (below the triple "crown") are the "chakras" spoken of in theosophical teachings and some Tibetan Buddhist teachings, and represent the seven fold nature of both the macrocosm and the microcosm. However, magical practices (which, incidentally, theosophy does not consider useful to teach outside the inner circles of avowed "chelas") use other d ivisions based, symbolically, on the hexagon and pentagon 2-D geometry's... (That are all, incidentally -- as parts of 3-D icosahedron and dodecahedron geometry's -- contained within or projected from the primary 3-D octahedron and cubic geometry's.) Interestingly, some 25 years ago, I built a 3-dimensional toothpick model of that projection in a mobile sculpture that contained a logical progression of all five regular polygons, one nested inside the other. It's also interesting that, if you assemble 6 octahedrons together, edge to edge, they form a larger octahedron with 8 tetrahedron voids centered on its triangular surfaces -- yet the larger octahedron still has 6 outer apex points and 1 center point (=7). This multiplication of octahedrons inscribed in spheres can be extended indefinitely until one as large as the physical universe is reached -- that still has 7 primary "chakra" points defining its analogous spherical shape. Thus the universe can have a near infinite multiplicity of analogous 7 fold entities between the zero-point and its maximum spherical extension in metric space. Should one be capable of conjointly using the dual mental powers, and has found the "Master within," its a relatively simple matter to visualize the connections between the primary seven fold divisions and all the other decimal and duodecimal divisions chosen by the different schools of mystical and magical teachings. Consequently, it might be added, the historical view of trying to understand mystical teachings by literally interpreting the words, names or descriptions used to explain the metaphysical powers, fields, planes, divisions, field effects, etc., by various teachers or schools, is fraught with danger... In that it confuses the mind, and causes one to either accept the most comfortable interpretation that fits in with ones own prejudices, preconceptions, and prior conditionings -- or totally deny the possibility that such transcendental field divisions exist at all. As HPB teaches, the entire system of metaphysical thought can be considered and understood from a logical, scientific basis -- whose prerequisite is an entirely open, unconditioned, and equally balanced intuitive and rational mind, as well as a thorough understanding and correlation of the three fundamental principles or propositions -- which should come long before a comparative study of the different religious and mystery schools' limited concepts of metaphysical truths (that are beyond the capabilities of ordinary linear, or left brain linguistic thinking to interpret or understand esoterically). It's a fact that the Universe involves and evolves from the zero-point through nonlinear processes... And, therefore, with linear thinking, it is impossible to see the reality of its inner nature -- other than the shadows it projects on the wall of (it's third level down) phenomenal matter and metric space. LHM

**Follow-Ups**:**Re: Dalas and Solarworld P.2***From:*"bri_mue" <bri_mue@yahoo.com>

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