Theos-Talk Archives (March 2002 Message tt00583)

In a message dated 03/23/02 3:51:32 PM, bri_mue@yahoo.com writes: '
[Quoting Jerry Schueler, followed by the usual hodgepodge of non sequitur 
historical and illogically prejudiced "proofs" (snipped) that the 
theosophical chakra system of 7 fold coadunate but not consubstantial fields 
is a false, unscientific view.]

>Jerry: I find this something like using a shoe horn to get a small 
>shoe onto a large foot. I take this "antiquity" business with a grain 
>of salt. There is absolutely NO reason that anyone can show as to why 
>7 is necessary or better than 6 or 5. The Enochian system works well 
>with 6. Tibetan Buddhism works well with 5. Seven is arbitrary.
>You will seldom find any 7-sheath models in Hinduism or Buddhism or 
>Vedanta. Row was a Theosophist and was reaching. Most schemes have 
>five or six sheaths. And are these sheaths principles or bodies? It 
>is still confusing. Judge and Besant both confounded bodies and 
>principles as if they were the same thing. G de P says that each 
>principle has a corresponding body or vehicle (upadhi). HPB says that 
>each plane is associated with a principle. And so it goes, with 
>Theosophists today still arguing and debating on what it all means.
>This sevenfold division is very arbitrary and is NOT the way things 
>are experienced. It is purely a Theosophical methodology and if we 
>can all accept that, we will be better off. There is nothing wrong 
>with having our own divisions of 7, and such a division works well 
>for me, but we need to recognize and accept that it is arbitrary and 
>NOT some kind of law of nature.

The above statements indicate that your ideas are perhaps based on literally 
interpreted dogmas that fit with your own preconceptions and with your, 
possibly, mistaken interpretations of the Buddha's as well as HPB's teachings 
-- which are quite paradoxical within themselves -- since both teachers were 
faced with two opposite states of existence along with all the possible 
intermediate states, further confounded by their language barriers or losses 
in translation. Therefore, we must be very careful to look at their contrary 
statements about divisions of space with very careful consideration of the 
contextual nature as well as the stage of involution and/or evolution they 
are referring to -- coupled with a thorough understanding of and ability to 
apply fundamental principles -- before making any judgments that we are 
tempted to cut in stone. 

Maybe we should also stop looking at contradictory historical ideas and other 
people's concepts to gain knowledge of metaphysical truths, and start 
thinking for ourselves based on fundamental principles... That is, to 
scientifically derive in our own minds where all these different divisions 
come from, and how they fit in with the overall truth; Which is that, the 
differentiation's of primary space and its fundamental "spinergy" is 
ultimately infinitely divisible... With "strange attractors" along the way 
that bring, at different stages, differing degrees of order out of the 
initial chaos. Thus the basic divisions or "orders," "phases," "planes," 
"fields," etc., could be any number from two to a googolplex. Although, the 
lower numbers from two to twenty-one tend to repeat themselves periodically 
along the way. 

Therefore, there's no reason for the divisions of "coadunate but not 
consubstantial fields" of nature not to be based on fundamental laws of 
energy involution and evolution, starting from their zero (laya) points of 
origin. 

Since this starting point is composed solely of abstract motion or circular 
spin, its emanations must obey the fixed laws of cycles and periodicity which 
govern all the harmonics of vibrational energy fields -- regardless of their 
spectrums, phases or orders of frequency -- from astral light to physical 
sound (and even lower to gravitational waves). Therefore, all the field 
involution's must follow the same laws of musical harmony -- which can be 
divided into either octaval, decimal or duodecimal scales -- as HPB 
repeatedly pointed out. As for these divisions, they can also be broken down 
into two, three, four, five, six, seven, ten, twelve, etc., subdivisions or 
harmonics. 

Since complete harmonies on the physical plane can be generated, starting 
with the simplest seven fold system, this is the basis of choosing the 7 
chakras which correspond with the octaval musical harmonies, and color scales 
or spectrums we directly experience. But, in some cultures where their 
musical scales are based on the decimal or duodecimal system, it is common to 
choose such a "chakra" (center) or "sheath" (field) system (to describe the 
human "nature") -- that can be divided into either 3, 4, 5, or 6 fields -- 
depending on the particular nature (spiritual, psychological, material, etc.) 
of the involved or evolved field effects that is being discussed. 

Thus, some "magical" systems are based on the 5 divisions and others on the 6 
divisions. (For reasons there is no need to go into here.) But, 
fundamentally, all these systems are governed by the same scientific laws 
related to the coadunate but not consubstantial coenergetic and cyclic field 
nature of the universe (along with the analogous inner natures of all the 
beings involved and evolved within it). These laws of harmony as well as of 
analogy and correspondence are described in mystic parlance as, "The music of 
the spheres" and "As above, so below." 

Another good study practice, is to visualize the varying linear geometry's of 
the initial involution of the nonlinear circular forces -- using both the 
linear left and nonlinear right brain thought processes, simultaneously. For 
example, from a geometric point of view, at the zero-point, in order to 
linearly describe the primal at(o)mic 3 dimensional spherical state after 
initial emanation of the zero (laya) point's "spinergy," there would be, 
fundamentally, only three directional lines passing through that center point 
at right angles -- each line pointing in opposite directions. 

Thus the initial 3-dimensional spherical field can be represented in linear 
geometry by the 6 directions, up-down, left-right, front-back -- which, by 
connecting their axial end points, forms an inscribed octahedron or double 
pyramid diamond figure that has 3 axes, 6 outer points and 1 center point, as 
well as 8 triangular sides and 12 edges. This is the simplest inscribed 
linear geometry (that can also be transformed into a cube, which has 1 center 
point, 8 outer points, 6 sides and 12 edges) -- representing, analogously, 
the nonlinear spherical geometry of the 3 cycle primary energy radiation and 
its divisions into triune, coadunate but not consubstantial fields that forms 
the primal "Monad." (See the diagrams at: 
http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html/ )

Thus -- since the octahedron is the simplest analogous form, with its 7 
zero-points of origin and conjunction of subsequent evolutionary fields (all 
based on the initial 3 cycle triune "monad" consisting of 1 outer field and 2 
inscribed inner fields) -- it is most natural to use the initial seven 
division system as the fundamental nature of the macrocosm, or Cosmos, that 
is directly reflected in the microcosm, or Mankind (that also relates 
directly to our three dimensional physical universe). This corresponds with 
the primal involution formula in the Book of Dzyan, "The 3, the 1, the 4, the 
1, the 5, the twice 7, the sum total." (Thus, the 7 above, and the 7 below 
-- as the first numerological description of the analogous relationship 
between the "chakra-fields" of the macrocosm and those of the microcosm.) 
This is the fundamental and lawful mathematical (geometrical and topological) 
basis of all theosophical metaphysics. And, is the root of all other systems, 
each of which is based on one of the seven points of view of the initial 
triune spin field. Unfortunately, the current basis of scientific thought, 
while it can look into and describe the physical universe from its six outer 
or objective points of view, does not consider the equally valid inner 
central or subjective point of view -- and, thus, cannot experience or 
determine the nature of the multidimensional inner, coadunate but not 
consubstantial fields that are enclosed and contained by the relatively 
eternal at(o)mic field.

This octaval scheme, of course, has nothing to do with magic -- since it is 
used only to describe the fundamental or primary 7 fold nature of 
Cosmogenesis and its reflection in corresponding fields of human 
consciousness, along with the linking of the dual spiritual nature, through 
the dual psychic nature, with the dual physical nature through their 5 
intermediate connecting zero-points tying these dual fields together. In 
addition, there are the 2 outer points linking the higher and lower 
(frequency) order fields (Atma and physical) with the surrounding universal 
fields (Mahatma and Fohat). Thus, totaling 7 chakra points in all -- which, 
correlated with the initial at(o)mic triad, gives us the total of ten as 
expressed in the so called "Trees of life," (symbolized either circularly or 
linearly, depending on whether we look at the paths either as 8 nonlinear c
oadunate spherical fields and 3 zero points as 8 linear geometrical divisions 
of the octahedron and three primary axes). 

That, incidentally, is the basis of the three plus seven fold, four level 
spherical chakra system that is analogous with the similarly numbered linear 
system -- since the zero-points and their surrounding coenergetic fields are, 
by necessity, with respect to the perpendicular force of gravity and the 
symmetry of the human body, lined up along the vertical axis. Ref: the SD 
linear drawings of the Rounds and Races, and the Sephirothal tree, as well as 
the symbolic initial involution field drawing at the above mentioned web 
site. These seven points (below the triple "crown") are the "chakras" spoken 
of in theosophical teachings and some Tibetan Buddhist teachings, and 
represent the seven fold nature of both the macrocosm and the microcosm. 

However, magical practices (which, incidentally, theosophy does not consider 
useful to teach outside the inner circles of avowed "chelas") use other d
ivisions based, symbolically, on the hexagon and pentagon 2-D geometry's... 
(That are all, incidentally -- as parts of 3-D icosahedron and dodecahedron 
geometry's -- contained within or projected from the primary 3-D octahedron 
and cubic geometry's.) 

Interestingly, some 25 years ago, I built a 3-dimensional toothpick model of 
that projection in a mobile sculpture that contained a logical progression of 
all five regular polygons, one nested inside the other. It's also 
interesting that, if you assemble 6 octahedrons together, edge to edge, they 
form a larger octahedron with 8 tetrahedron voids centered on its triangular 
surfaces -- yet the larger octahedron still has 6 outer apex points and 1 
center point (=7). This multiplication of octahedrons inscribed in spheres 
can be extended indefinitely until one as large as the physical universe is 
reached -- that still has 7 primary "chakra" points defining its analogous 
spherical shape. Thus the universe can have a near infinite multiplicity of 
analogous 7 fold entities between the zero-point and its maximum spherical 
extension in metric space. 

Should one be capable of conjointly using the dual mental powers, and has 
found the "Master within," its a relatively simple matter to visualize the 
connections between the primary seven fold divisions and all the other 
decimal and duodecimal divisions chosen by the different schools of mystical 
and magical teachings. 

Consequently, it might be added, the historical view of trying to understand 
mystical teachings by literally interpreting the words, names or descriptions 
used to explain the metaphysical powers, fields, planes, divisions, field 
effects, etc., by various teachers or schools, is fraught with danger... In 
that it confuses the mind, and causes one to either accept the most 
comfortable interpretation that fits in with ones own prejudices, 
preconceptions, and prior conditionings -- or totally deny the possibility 
that such transcendental field divisions exist at all. 

As HPB teaches, the entire system of metaphysical thought can be considered 
and understood from a logical, scientific basis -- whose prerequisite is an 
entirely open, unconditioned, and equally balanced intuitive and rational 
mind, as well as a thorough understanding and correlation of the three 
fundamental principles or propositions -- which should come long before a 
comparative study of the different religious and mystery schools' limited 
concepts of metaphysical truths (that are beyond the capabilities of ordinary 
linear, or left brain linguistic thinking to interpret or understand 
esoterically). It's a fact that the Universe involves and evolves from the 
zero-point through nonlinear processes... And, therefore, with linear 
thinking, it is impossible to see the reality of its inner nature -- other 
than the shadows it projects on the wall of (it's third level down) 
phenomenal matter and metric space.

LHM