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Re: Theos-World Re: P.3: Astral Lodges and Projection.

Mar 31, 2002 12:56 PM
by Steve Stubbs

Brigitte: "Sorry to say Steve but your arguments only
help to confuse an already confused issue more so.

It seemed as if you were about to say something
important, then there was a whole lot of stuff about
Agrippa, Mesmer, and others which had nothing to do
with your point. Please explain: How am I confusing
an already confused issue?

If you are saying the theory of will in Isis came from
the Marquis de Puysegur, you are absolutely right. I
agree 100%.

Brigitte: "If it is maintained that the lawful
behavior of molecules, mountains, or planets are
instances of rewards and punishments, this is plainly

Yes, I see no evidence that the universe is moral or
that it could care less about any human system of
taboos. The ancient Jews, for example, worshipped
volcanoes and thought they could get favors from their
volcano god if they did this and that and the other
thing, thus their complex system of ritual
observances. But this is primitive magic rather than
anything else. Besides, it did not work, as their own
prophets constantly admitted and tried to explain by
saying someone somewhere must have "sinned".

Brigitte: "If, to avoid this absurdity, "Karma" is
taken in a broader sense in which it is simply a
synonym for "lawfulness" or "regularity," then calling
the various laws of nature instances of Karma is
saying nothing at all.

That's not quite right. Our actions have consequences
which are not always clearly connected to the actions
which caused them. There is no reason to believe the
cause/effect relationship is anything but mechanical,
but it is non obvious in many cases, especially if a
considerable space of time elapses before the karms
ripens. That this is true is a profound insight and
says a good deal.

Brigitte: "A closer look at the purported ancient
wisdom religion shows it to be a mythologization of
ideas characteristic of late 19th century. 


Brigitte: "It would mean that every time
somebody produces something, he also produces an
astral copy of that thing. A carpenter who builds a
set of bookshelves is really building two sets, the
regular one he sells to his customer and an astral
copy he sells to nobody.

Rather that the incident "exists" in some invisible or
unmanifested manner before it becomes manifested
physically. This idea is used to explain why it is
sometimes allegedly possible for people to view
incidents before they occur. In its most homely form,
people routinely dream about things they are going to
do the following day, which is why we learn to forget
our dreams. Before a building comes into existence it
exists in the mind of an architect, etc.

Brigitte: "George Ritchie's ... astral body is
supposed to have made the grand tour while his
"physical" body was out of action. However memory
traces of the experiences during this trip were
produced in the astral brain and not in George's
regular brain. ... How could the appropriate memory
traces have been produced in George's regular brain?

Not a problem if Henri Bergson is right. He argued in
his book MATTER AND MEMORY that memory makes use of
the brain but is not limited to it. This phenomenon
of memory is extremely mysterious however you slice
it. The exact relationship between brain and memory
or brain and consciousness is still a mystery.

Brigitte: "This objection may not faze astral(plus the
other 6 Theosophical body's) theorists

That is probably true. It does not faze me.

Brigitte: "Famous esotericist Rene Guenon in his book
about the TS as the invention of a pseudo?religion,
alleges that HPB and 0lcott were both members of the
Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor (HBL), as was George
Felt, an early TS associate. Steve Stubbs has argued a
similar position.

Actually what I said was that Blavatsky belonged to
Randolph's Rosicrucian Brotherhood based in Boston and
wrote about it in Isis under the code name Brotherhood
of Luxor. The HB of L was a later organization which
adopted a similar name. They considered Randolpg a
spiritual ancestor but they were a separate
organization from the one he founded. Guenon was
neither "famous" nor was he careful with facts,
typical of French writers of that period.

Brigitte: "K.Paul Johnson in has by now famous book
"The Master Revealed, writes on p.32 : C. J.
jinarajadasa admits that in 1875 HPB used a seal
"symbolic of the Brotherhood of Luxor" on her
notepaper, but denies that this Brotherhood was the
same as the HBL.

I did not know TMR was "famous." J. is correct that
the Rosicrucian Brotherhood was not the same
organization as the HB of L. He was usually wrong,
but on this he was right.

Brigitte: "reincarnation opposed to all of the most
widely held testresults so far this century on the
mind body problem

Please explain: how could comeone put something like
reincarnation to a test and get results?

Brigitte: "I do also agree with criticisms of the
Christian position. It seems ludicrous that something
as important as the 
creation of a soul that is going to exist forever
should be tied to such accidents as the failure of a
birth control appliance.

The problem with that argument is that it assumes
Nature is coneerned about the "importance" of human
procreation, and there is no reason to believe this is
the case.

Brigitte: "It is safe to say that educated Christians
and Jews do not believe in the special creation of the
soul any more than atheists and agnostics

"educated Christians and Jews"? Is that an oxymoron? 
Most people are trained but not educated, IMO, and
that statement regrettably applies to most of the
folks I have met who hail from Europe as well as the
US. It is possible for people to be very well trained
in certain areas (but not educated at all) and to
believe some really absurd things.

Brigitte: "Most reincamationists are not aware that
the admirable G. E. Lessing ... sympathized with
reincarnation, but they do almost invariably mention
the less admirable Henry Ford
and the still less admirable George Patton, Jr.

That is probably true, but it does not say anything. 
Most snakes believe in the existence of rats, since
they eat them. I agree with the snakes that rats
exist, but that does not make me a snake worshipper. 
I leave that to Pentecostals in West Virginia.

What do I care whether Henry Ford was admirable or

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