Theos-Talk Archives (February 2002 Message tt00627)

Hi Dallas and all of you,

Comment to the below:
To Dallas: It is very interesting and also makes me think. Both the thoughts of Eldon and yours.
And thanks for posting the article 
by HPB "Occultism Vs. The Occult Arts" - I think it is HPB when she is at her best in writing.

Yes them "sparks" and the proper "fuel" of the right special kind, - interesting...very interesting...

To the Sai Baba deabte:
By the way Sai Baba is sort of unofficially teaching (not kundalini Yoga) but opening of the spiritual heart - and the lifting of the energies up and through the head. But his teaching is often very - individually oriented.

Sai Baba is saying something like: One should seek to let ones thoughts come from the heart of compassion - and then let them run up and out through the head to the benefit of the world.
Sai Baba is saying something like: One should seek to create harmony between the head (wisdom) and the heart (compassion) and the hands (action). Too much or too little of either is no good.
This part of his teaching seems at least not to be against theosophy a such.

I wonder when the (especially western) journalists of today will start to present - teachings of wisdom rather than - teachings on the accusations andscandals.
A lot of people like to expose other people - and become - the fame of the day. Some even seek to do it at any cost. Even H. P. Blavatsky experienced that.
But does anyone consider wisdom and compassion to be something to be taught - to children and grown ups ?
The children of today are the theosophists of tomorrow. 
How many schools of Theosophy exists today ?? And in how many countries ?? Anyone ??


from
Sufilight with temporary Maya...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Theos-World the pronoun fights


> Wednesday, February 20, 2002
> 
> Dear Eldon:
> 
> Your suggestion (made below), if I have understood it correctly,
> has made me think.
> 
> If the System of Theosophical philosophy is correct, it
> encompasses the world, and is not limited to those who think of
> themselves as "Theosophists." Then, if correct, the kind of
> organization you seem to think of already exists. It is made up
> of many individuals who may or may not be affiliated with other
> "organizations."
> 
> It is the affiliation of many free-choosing individuals that
> builds an organization, and not the "organization" that molds the
> individual. Each human being is a "king" unto themselves. Ideas
> may come from anywhere, but ultimately every "idea" has to be
> mulled over, considered and accepted, modified, or rejected by
> the free INDIVIDUAL -- the SPIRITUAL EGO -- who is the Real
> Person within each of us.
> 
> It may not be obvious. It may not necessarily be something one
> can count, or even something that can be placed in any of the
> "organizations" already public. I would ask if the decline of
> individual affiliations is not a sign that either some aspect of
> the work we ought to be doing is left undone by us, or that the
> cycle at present, is one in which few who have a vital and a
> continuing (self generated) interest in the depths and the
> applications, practically, of Theosophical philosophy, are
> present?
> 
> As I see it Theosophy, as a philosophy and as a record of the
> history that relates to the periodical reformation of Universe,
> Earth and man -- and, of every other being (since all are
> included in its evolutionary march) -- is something that an
> individual, as a free mind, a free intelligence has to want to
> look into and learn about.
> 
> There are many who inquire.
> 
> H P B in her "Messages" sent to American Theosophists in
> Conventions assembled between 1888 and 1891 provided a survey of
> the difficulties that karmic cycles would bring. Here are some
> extracts: (taken from Message 1, 1888): H P B wrote: --
> 
> "The multiplication of local centres should be a foremost
> consideration in your minds, and each man should strive to be a
> centre of work in himself. But let no man set up a popery
> instead of Theosophy, as this would be suicidal and has ever
> ended most fatally. We are all fellow-students, more or less
> advanced.
> 
> "Theosophical ideas have entered into every development or form
> which awakening spirituality has assumed, yet Theosophy pure and
> simple has still a severe battle to fight for recognition. The
> recognition of pure Theosophy - the philosophy of the rational
> explanation of things and not the tenets - is of the most vital
> importance.
> 
> "On the day when Theosophy will have accomplished its most holy
> and most important mission - namely to unite firmly a body of men
> of all nations in brotherly love and bent on a pure altruistic
> work, not on a labor with selfish motives - on that day only will
> Theosophy become higher than any nominal brotherhood of man.
> 
> "Orthodoxy in Theosophy is a thing neither possible nor
> desirable. It is diversity of opinion, within certain limits that
> keeps the Theosophical Society a living and a healthy body, its
> many other ugly features notwithstanding.
> 
> "Were it not, also, for the existence of a large amount of
> uncertainty in the minds of students of Theosophy, such healthy
> divergencies would be impossible, and the Society would
> degenerate into a sect.
> 
> "As people are prepared to receive it, so will new Theosophical
> teachings be given. But no more will be given than the world, on
> its present level of spirituality, can profit by. It depends on
> the spread of Theosophy - the assimilation of what has been
> already given - how much more will be revealed and how soon.
> 
> "The Society was not founded as a nursery for forcing a supply of
> Occultists -- as a factory for the manufactory of Adepts. It was
> intended to stem the current of materialism, and also that of
> spiritualistic phenomenalism and the worship of the Dead. It had
> to guide the spiritual awakening that has now begun, and not to
> pander to psychic cravings which are but another form of
> materialism. By "materialism" is meant not only an
> anti-philosophical negation of pure spirit, and, even more,
> materialism in conduct and action - brutality, hypocrisy, and,
> above all, selfishness.
> 
> "Theosophy seeks to develop the human nature in man in addition
> to the animal, and at the sacrifice of the superfluous animality
> which modern life and materialistic teachings have developed to a
> degree which is abnormal for the human being at this stage of his
> progress.
> 
> "The essence of Theosophy is the perfect harmonizing of the
> divine with the human in man, the adjustment of his god-like
> qualities and aspirations, and their sway over the terrestrial or
> animal passions in him. Kindness, absence of every ill feeling or
> selfishness, charity, good-will to all beings, and perfect
> justice to others as to one's self, are its chief features. He
> who teaches Theosophy preaches the gospel of good-will
> 
> "The function of Theosophists is to open men's hearts and
> understandings to charity, justice, and generosity, attributes
> which belong specifically to the human kingdom and are natural to
> man when he has developed the qualities of a human being.
> 
> "Theosophy teaches the animal-man to be a human-man; and when
> people have learned to think and feel as truly human beings
> should feel and think, they will act humanely, and works of
> charity, justice, and generosity will be done spontaneously by
> all. Although there must be local Branches of the Theosophical
> Society, there can be no local Theosophists; and just as you all
> belong to the Society, so do I belong to you all. " -- H P B
> [extracts from Message of 1888]
> 
> From Message for 1890:--
> 
> "See and realize what great results can be achieved by those who
> are really in earnest and unite unselfishly to work for humanity.
> Let this year's outcome show you in unmistakable signs the
> weighty responsibility that rests upon you, not only towards the
> Society, but towards the whole of Humanity. Therefore do not for
> one moment relax in your efforts; press closer, shoulder to
> shoulder, every day; stand together as one man, come what may,
> fine weather or storm, and the victory of the cause to which you
> have pledged yourselves is certain. Striving thus in unison with
> your Higher Self, your efforts must and will be fruitful of good
> to the Society, to yourselves, to Humanity.
> 
> "Coming years will show a steady, healthy growth, a strong,
> united organization, a durable, reliable, and efficient
> instrument ready to the Masters' hands. Once united in real
> solidarity, in the true spirit of Universal Brotherhood, no power
> can overthrow you, no obstacle bar your progress, no barrier
> check the advance of Theosophy in the coming century. [ From H
> P B Message for 1890 ]
> 
> 
> In the recently posted article of H P B OCCULTISM vs THE OCCULT
> ARTS one finds that a clear distinction between the motive for
> acquiring knowledge, wisdom and "powers" is made.
> 
> If so, then the urge to do this has to arise within individuals
> and can not be imposed or instilled. It is something that is
> spontaneous and arises from an intuition of the Higher Self, the
> SPIRITUAL RAY, within each individual.
> 
> One might of course ask how its presence and ability to work
> externally has become obscured and diverted. And that can only
> be answered by each individual for themselves.
> 
> As I think of it the effort we could all put forth is to make the
> statements and presentations of universal Verities -- as H P B
> did for the Masters of Wisdom, our Elder Brothers -- more easily
> available to those who might want to read them and use them.
> 
> In view of the discussions and various other matters of the last
> several weeks of a polemical nature, one need only contrast the
> writing found there with the power of what H P B presented as
> THEOSOPHY for us to consider. The nature, capacity and power of
> those words and ideas tell their own story and offer the "proof"
> asked for. It is internal to them. It is innate in them. and
> does not depend solely on the words used. That is of course my
> opinion. But I am sure others have noticed that.
> 
> So, if we cannot yet generate the kind of presentation that H P B
> was able to do, then it is my belief that we can help the great
> THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT by presenting again some of the key works
> and ideas H P B was responsible for bringing to our attention.
> Many have not had the opportunity of contacting "original
> Theosophy" -- by this method they may do so. Let those splendid
> words work their magic on other readers, as they have on us.
> None of us can say in advance what words or methods will prove
> best, but we can all do something that we feel is of assistance.
> And you, Eldon, in my esteem, have been of such help to us all by
> maintaining this exchange list. I for one deeply appreciate it,
> and appreciate knowing you.
> 
> Some have raised the question of idiom -- the language of the
> late 19th century and that of the early 21st century now differs.
> Agreed that it does. But can you imagine the average man of
> woman of the late 19th century trying to read what H P B wrote?
> The so-called language barriers and difficulties of today and
> those of "then" are roughly the same. I might also say that it
> seems to me that present methods of education have had the effect
> of restricting a knowledge of and usage of the English language.
> There has been an effort made which has been characterized as
> "dumbing us down."
> 
> But good and clearly expressed English is always available for
> those who desire to learn, and the desire to learn is something
> that arises spontaneously from within any and very individual.
> It is very difficult in my esteem to try to speak or write so
> that everyone will understand. But a few important ideas and key
> words have the power to resonate and evoke search. Each
> individual has to provide their own fire of enthusiasm. We need
> only provide the fuel to be used, or at least a "spark" that they
> can seize upon. In my esteem there is plenty of work for us to
> do. And another "organization" will essentially do what ?
> 
> I do not mean in any way to be discouraging, but suggest we all
> use the "organizations" available, and our own innate "fire" to
> spread information about the basics and the tenets of Theosophy
> for as many as possible to contact.
> 
> Best wishes, to you, as always
> 
> Dallas
> 
> ===============================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eldon B Tucker [mailto:eldon@theosophy.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:37 PM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Theos-World the pronoun fights
> 
> At 05:55 PM 2/19/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Well, it's better than the pronoun fight that raged a few years
> back.
> >
> >Chuck the Heretic
> 
> Can you imagine what would happen to Mark Twain's books
> were the Politically Correct revisionists able to
> sanitize the text?
> 
> Now, in some recent historic discussions, I wonder if
> the battle has shifted from pronouns to adjectives? <grin>
> 
> Somehow I think that an new organizational structure and
> approach to the theosophical philosophy may be needed.
> Look at the declining memberships and lack of impact in
> the world. What worked for W.Q. Judge in the 1880's in
> America in the days of the wild west does not seem quite
> up to par for the needs of people today.
> 
> We can support the status quo with the existing
> groups, and watch the slow decline. Or we can reconsider
> what organizational and educational techniques exist
> and can be applied in support of Theosophy.
> 
> I would make a distinction between the organizations,
> which are tools we use to work together, and the
> philosophy itself, which can be studied and taught
> regardless of theosophical affiliation.
> 
> -- Eldon
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
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