Theos-Talk Archives (January 2002 Message tt00331)

Wednesday, January 23, 2002

Friends:
I just posted this an it came out garbled.

Let me correct and post it again.

Apologies to all

Dallas

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CONVERSATIONS ON OCCULTISM WITH H P B


W. Q. Judge

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In 1875, '76, '77 and '78 my intimacy with H.P.B. gave me many
opportunities for conversing with her on what we then called
"Magic." These useful, and for me very wonderful, occasions came
about late at night, and sometimes during the day. I was then in
the habit of calling on her in the daytime whenever I could get
away from my office. Many times I stayed in her flat for the
purpose of hearing as much and seeing
as much as I could. Later on, in 1884, I spent many weeks with
her in the Rue Notre Dame des Champs in Paris, sitting beside her
day after day and evening after evening; later still in 1888,
being with her in London, at Holland Park, I had a few more
opportunities.


Some of what she said I publish here for the good of those who
can benefit by her words. Certainly no
greater practical occultist is known to this century: from that
point of view what she said will have a certain useful weight
with some.


ON DEVACHAN


This terms was not in use at this time. The conversation was
about steps on the Path and returning here again. In answer to a
question:

"Yes, you have been here and at this before. You were born with
this tendency, and in other lives have
met these persons [supposed Adept influences], and they are here
to see you for that reason."

Later, when definite terms had come into use, the question raised
was whether or not all stayed 1500 years in Devachan.

"Well, Judge, you must know well that under the philosophy we
don't all stay there so long. It varies with the character of
each. A thoroughly material thinker will emerge sooner than one
who is a spiritual philosopher and good. Besides, recollect that
all workers for the Lodge, no matter of what degree, are helped
out of Devachan if they themselves permit it. Your own ideas
which you have stated, that 1500 years had not elapsed since you
went into Devachan, is correct, and that I tell is what Master
himself tells me. So there you are."



PRECIPITATION BY MASTERS


In reply to a question on this she said:

"If you think Master is going to be always precipitating things,
you mistake. Yes, He can do it. But most of the precipitations
are by chelas who would seem to you almost Masters. I see His
orders, and the thoughts and words He wishes used, and I
precipitate them in that form; so does __ and one or two more."

"Well, what of Their handwritings?"

"Anything you write is your handwriting, but it is not your
personal handwriting, generally used and first learned if you
assume or adopt some form. Now you know that Masters'
handwritings, peculiar and personal to Themselves, are foreign
both as to sound and form -Indian sorts, in fact. So They adopted
a form in English, and in that form I precipitate Their messages
as Their direction. Why B__ almost
caught me one day and nearly made a mess of it by shocking me.
The message has to be seen in the astral light in facsimile, and
through that astral matrix I precipitate the whole of it. It's
different, though, if Master sends me the paper and the message
already done. That's why I call these things 'psychological
tricks.' The sign of an objective wonder seemed to be required,
although a moment's thought will show it is not proof of anything
but occult ability. Many a medium has had precipitations before
my miserable self was heard of. But blessed is the one who wants
no sign. You have seen plenty of these things. Whey do want to
ask me? Can't you use your brain and intuition? I've sampled
almost the whole possible range of wonders for you. Let them use
their brains and intuition with the known facts and the theories
given."


IF WHITE MAGICIANS ACT, WHAT THEN?


"Look here; here's a man who wants to know why the Masters don't
interpose at once and save his business. They don't seem to
remember what it means for a Master to use occult force. If you
explode gunpowder to split a rock you may knock down a house.
There is a law that if a White Magician uses his
occult power and equal amount of power may be used by the Black
one. Chemists invent powders for explosives and wicked men may
use them. You force yourself into Mater's presence and you take
the consequences of the immense forces around him playing on
yourself. If you are weak in character anywhere, the Black ones
will use the disturbance by directing the forces engendered to
that spot and may compass your ruin. It is so always. Pass the
boundary that hedges in the occult realm, and quick forces, new
ones, dreadful ones, must be met. Then if you are not strong you
may become a wreck for that life. This is the danger. This is one
reason why Masters do not appear and do not act directly very
often, but nearly always by intermediate degrees. What do you
say,--"the dual forces in nature?" Precisely, that's just it;
and Theosophists should remember it."


DO MASTERS PUNISH?


"Now I'm not going to tell you about this. They are just; They
embody the Law and Compassion. Do not for an instant imagine that
Masters are going to come down on you for your failures and
wrongs, if any. Karma looks out for this. Masters' ethics are the
highest. From the standpoint of your question, They do not
punish. Have I not told you that, much as detractors have cast
mud at Them, never will the Masters impose punishment. I cannot
see why such a question comes up. Karma will do all the punishing
that is necessary."



ABOUT ELEMENTALS


"It's a long time ago now that I told you this part would not be
explained. But I can tell you some things.
This one that you and Olcott used to call ___ can't see you
unless I let him. Now I will impress you upon it or him so that
like a photograph he will remember so far. But you can't make it
obey you until you know how to get the force directed. I'll send
him to you and let him make a bell."

[In a few days after this the proposed sign was given at a
distance from her, and a little bell was sounded in the air when
I was talking with a person not interested in Theosophy, and when
I was three miles
away from H.P.B. On next seeing her she asked if ___ had been
over and sounded the bell, mentioning the exact day and time.]

"This one has no form in particular, but is more like a revolving
mass of air. But it is, all the same, quite
definite, as you know from what he has done. There are some
classes with forms of their own. The general division into fiery,
airy, earthy, and watery is pretty correct, but it will not cover
all the classes. There is not a single thing going on about us,
no matter what, the elementals are not concerned in, because they
constitute a necessary part of nature, just as important as the
nerve currents in your body. Why in storms you should see them
how they move about. Don't you remember what you told me about
that lady___ who saw them change and move about at that opera? It
was due to her tendencies and the general idea underlying the
opera." [It was the opera of Tristan and Isolde, by Wagner.-J]
"In that case, as Isolde is Irish, the whole ideas under it
aroused a class of elementals peculiar to that island and its
traditions. That's a queer place, Judge, that Ireland. It is
packed full of a singular class of elementals; and, by Jove! I
see they even have emigrated in quite large numbers. Sometimes
one quite by accident rouses up some ancient system, say from
Egypt; that is the explanation of that singular astral noise
which you said reminded you of a sistrum being shaken; it was
really objective. But, my dear fellow, do you think I will give
you a patent elemental extractor? -not yet. Bulwer Lytton wrote
very wisely, for him, on this subject."

[Riding over in Central Park, New York.] "It is very interesting
here. I see a great number of Indians, and also their elementals,
just as real as you seem to be. They do not see us; they are all
spooks. But
look here, Judge, don't confound the magnetism escaping through
your skin with the gentle taps of supposed elementals who want a
cigarette."

[In W. 34th Street, New York. The first time she spoke to me of
elementals particularly, I having asked
her about her Spiritualism.-J.]

"It is nearly all done by elementals. Now I can make them tap
anywhere you like in this room. Select any place you wish." [I
pointed to a hard plaster wall-space free from objects.] "Now ask
what you like that can be answered by taps."

Q. What is my age? Taps: the correct number.

Q. How many in my house? Taps: right.

Q. How many months have I been in the city? Taps: correct.

Q. What number of minutes past the hour by my watch? Taps: right.

Q. How many keys on my ring? Taps: correct.

H.P.B. "Oh bosh! Let it stop. You won't get any more, for I have
cut it off. Try your best. They have no
sense; they got it all out of your own head, even the keys, for
you know inside how many keys are on the ring, though you don't
remember; but any how I could see into your pocket and count the
number, and then that tapper would give the right reply. There's
something better than all that magic nonsense."



SHE PRECIPITATES IN LONDON


In 1888 I was in London and wanted a paper, with about four
sentences written on it in purple ink, which I had left in
America. I came down to her room where B. Keightley was, and, not
saying anything, sat down opposite H.P.B. I thought: "If only she
would get me back some way a copy of that paper." She smiled at
me, rose, went into her room, came out at once, and in a moment
handed me a piece of paper, passing it right in front of
Keightley. To my amazement it was a duplicate of my paper, a
facsimile.

I then asked her how she got it, and she replied: "I saw it in
your head and the rest was easy. You thought it very clearly. You
know it can be done; and it was needed." This was all done in
about the time it takes to read these descriptive sentences.


William Q. Judge


PATH, April, 1894

U L T -- W Q J Articles, Vol. I, p. 417

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Note:


[ see also Wachmeister REMINISCENCES, pp. 101-4, 146-150 W. Q.
Judge on H P B ]