Theos-Talk Archives (January 2002 Message tt00290)

01/20/2002 2:00 AM

DTB writes:


Dear Leon:


I have carefully read your statements made below.

In general I agree with your conclusions and statements.

I say "in general" since one might quibble over a few statements.
But taking as broad a meaning for words, such as you do, and the
breadth and depth of metaphysics, I would agree.

Let me add a few notes in the text you have so kindly sent me --
below.

Thanks

Dallas

===================================





-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Maurer
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 1:32 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Creating yet another duality.


>From whatever school in India the nihilist view of the
impermanence of the
higher SELF and the invalidity of mantric, mandalic and mudric
practices
(that require proper visualization in the mind and centering of
the four
lower natures to fulfill their purposes), as well as the
discussion related
to the three gunas -- came from... It appears to be a much
distorted
misinterpretation of the true (fundamentally scientific) "Secret
Doctrine."

=============================================

DTB In the THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY p. 79 we have a
definition of CHARVAKA -- a Materialist also : { Isis I 144-6,
300-1;

H P B to A P S LETTERS p. 264;

CAVES & JUNGLES, p. 473, 545-6, 353-4; Nastika, p. 225; ]

These are helpful in further definitions and also indicate
antiquity.

=============================================



Rather than argue against it point for point (which is already
well done in
the SD) -- the following is the actual bases of both the origin
of Atma
(representing the higher SELF of all) as well as the absolute
(fundamentally
triune) Universal source of ALL (Brahma, Parabrahm or
Para-Parabrahm), and
it's (their) unified interrelationship to the three gunas.

NOTE: What follows below is partly a repeat of a previous
discussion
referring to Atma -- with some added commentary related to the
gunas -- that
will enable discerning and intuitive students (with reference to
the teachings
in the Secret Doctrine) to arrive at their own understanding of
the
relationship of the SELF to the gunas, as well as determine the
validity of
the meditative means (as described in the Voice of the Silence
and the Yoga
Aphorisms of Patanjali) required to reach "Self realization" or
"enlightenment"

(Note that; to become ONE with and fully conscious of the higher
SELF or the
individual monad [atma, buddhi, higher manas] which is in an
eternal state of
Sattva, one must achieve Sattva on each of the four lower levels
of one's
being -- leaving aside the false, nihilistic view that one's
individual being
doesn't exist as such, except as an illusion.:-):

======================================

DTB In my esteem, it is the Lower, the embodied Manas which
has to become one with the Higher Manas and ultimately the
ATMAN -- the HIGHER SELF of ALL
>From there is but a step to the ABSOLUTE -- Parabrahm,
Paranishpanna.

The Lower Manas inevitably sees all things in terms of some kind
of limits in time and space.

The Higher Mind (Buddhi-Manas) perceives no limits and yet
identity is never non-essed. The aggregations of the karmic
skandhas makes this impossible ( see H P B Articles, III, p.
265 -- "ISIS UNVEILED" AND THE VISHISHTADWAITA" "Theosophist,"
January 1886, BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. 7, p. 50]

=========================

.....incidentally, coincides with the theosophical view): what
Buddha meant by "anatman" as "maya," or illusion, was that each
individual
Atman or "ray" of Atma is essentially of the same essence as the
Supreme
Spirit from which it emanates (therefore not "separate" in
"essential being"
from all other rays)... But, like individual rays of the sun,
which are no
different from each other in essence and travel on "forever"** in
their
individual (different) directions and activities (karma) -- each
of these
individual rays of Atma, as unchanging higher EGOS or individual
SELVES, also
continue on their separate karmic paths -- and, consequently,
through
ignorance of their identical source, they each become deluded
into assuming
that the surrounding fields of lower nature (individual selves or
lower egos
identified with the mind and body) which they carry along with
them, are the
essential (unchanging) reality of their being. This false belief
is what
Buddha tried to dispel with his doctrine of anatma. (It is
interesting that
if this was not his purpose, there would be no sense to the
teachings of the
bodhisattva path and the transcendence of karma, or the doctrine
of the
skandhas.)

"** "forever" meaning the entire loop that an emanating atmic ray
travels
through the cycle of "wakeful" manvantaric existence in Brahma
and its return
to "sleeping" pralayic existence in Parabrahm -- to begin the
journey again
in the following manvantara (and repeatedly through following
cycles of
Brahma) based on its individual skandhas until all its karma is
resolved or
mitigated and brought into harmonious relationship with the
higher SELF of
ALL.

"Of, course, this doesn't deny the possibility that once any
individual atmic
entity (or Atman) resolves all its karma, whether through
meditative
realization or otherwise, and becomes absorbed in Parabrahm (or
becomes ONE
with the source in nirvana or paranishpanna) -- that is can ever
be
distinguished as the same separate individual being on the next
emanation of
Brahma -- unless, as a bodhisattva adept (such as a Buddha), it
so chooses"
-- and can, accordingly, "remember all its past 'lives'."

=======================================

DTB Speaking in ultimates there cannot be any final
resolution to KARMIC LINKS. As such the relationship of the Unit
with the WHOLE is continuous -- eternal.

The concept of "BLISS" being "rest," or cessation of relationship
with the "embodied and the continual emanations from the MONADIC
ESSENCE ( S D I 634 ) is wholly devised by the Lower
(embodied) Manas,

===================================


Thus, Atma, per se, whether noumenal in Pralaya or phenomenal in
manvantara
-- (putting aside its essential manifest monadic conjunction with
Buddhi and
higher Manas) -- can be considered, in effect, eternal... Since
it is, initially as
Mahatma, the first emanation of Parabrahm as well as
correspondingly
and analogously being the first emanation of Brahma.


When unmanifest or absorbed in Brahma or Parabrahm, it does not
become nonexistent, but is simply a "sleeping" (existent)
potentiality
out of Time (infinite duration) rather than an existent reality
in Time
(limited duration) ... Although, in itself, it is continually
unchanging
and therefore, timeless. This might be
likened to a particular molecule of water that doesn't lose its
specific
individuality even though absorbed in the body of the ocean. It
also
corresponds to Jesus' statement that, as the Christ (direct ray
of Atma), he
is "in the world but not of the world" -- therefore, not subject
to time.
(That which is not subject to time is, in effect, eternal.)

============================

DTB The "specific individuality" of a selected molecule is
wholly an analogy.

On the non-manifest planes it may signify the entire plurality
and ETERNITY OF THE IMMORTAL MONADS as UNITS and ETERNAL
PILGRIMS, or it may enable to selection of any one for the
purpose of examination, it being understood that such selection
is only illustrative.

There is no "end" to their work and presence. Was there any
beginning ?

Personally I can perceive of no entire segregation of
MANIFESTATION from NON-MANIFESTATION. Like the Yang-Yin symbol,
they are universally concurrent in both time and space, Their
shape indicates eternal motion.

====================================


It also implies that Parabrahm, along with the "consciousness"
inherent in
its static zero-point center of eternal abstract motion, or
"spinergy,"
pervades all phenomenal beings, from the simplest "atom" (sub sub
quark),
through the four kingdoms of nature up to the most complex
"organism" (Man,
made in the "image of Brahma)."


This is in line with the idea of all
religions, that the highest "God" (Parabrahm, Ein Soph, Allah,
Christos, Ali
Buddha, etc. is within us all and only needs to be acknowledged
by a profound
realization of the Self. Thus, "the self of one is the Self of
all" -- and
the All includes both the Absolute AND the Relative -- one being
the opposite
aspect of the other... As the "zero point" is the essence of non
motion,
inertia or Tamas, and its surrounding spinergy is the essence of
motion,
action, or Rajas -- with harmony or Sattva being simply the
balance between
these two opposites (e.g., body still, mind in motion; mind
still, spirit in
motion; spirit still, Absolute [God] in motion).

Note that motion, as "action" or karma, which never ceases, has
three
aspects;

(1) non motion or Tamas;

(2) abstract motion or Sattva; and

(3) concrete motion or Rajas.


This relates to:


(1) the Zero Point (as tamas) ;

(2) its surrounding unmanifest, nonlinear, non-dimensional
Spinergy, balanced
by two directions of spin with equal and opposite forces (as
Sattva); and

(3) the multidimensional coadunate fields of linear motional
energy after
emanation or manifestation (as Rajas).


Thus, ALL existence, whether manifest or unmanifest, abstract or
concrete, is inherently triune in essence. And, this trinity,
expresses itself in all further differentiations of the
fundamental unity, e.g., the object of perception, the perception
itself, and
the perceiver; the beginning, the middle, and the end; the
spirit, the soul,
and the body, etc.

============================

DTB Sounds to me like a translation from BHAGAVAD GITA .

=============================


To be better able to visualize the origin of all the analogous
energetic and
numerical relationships between all these different aspects of
universal
involution and evolution, and for reference to the emanation of
the
interdependent fields of consciousness from the initial zero
point of eternal
abstract Space and its surrounding motional energy (or
"spinergy"), as well
as to understand the dynamic (coenergetic) relationship between
such
"coadunate but not consubstantial" fields, see:

http://tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/
http://members.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakraf
ield.html
http://members.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/evoluti
on2.html

Note: It is essential that, in order to create a complete
circular or
spherical entity starting with the emanation out of the primal
zero-point of
the first ray of manifestation, the ray must complete its first
repetitive
path in three cycles -- forming a figure 8 within a surrounding
circle --
which eventually spirally revolves into two inner spheres within
an outer
sphere. These three elements (circles or spheres), as an
interconnected
unity, constitute the root nature of all succeeding triune monads
consisting
of differentiation's analogous to Atma, Buddhi, Manas. (e.g.,


Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva;


Kether, Binah, Chokmah;


Mulaprakriti, Purusha, Prakriti, etc.)


==============================

DTB This kind of Diagram is PLANAR. Have you tried to make
it 3-dimensional?

You would have 3 spheres as a kind of pyramid enclosed within the
larger sphere -- which has "center no-where and circumference
everywhere.

Could this be, in one aspect, the DIVINE TETRAKTYS ?

==============================


As an added note;
One reason why many theosophists (who study the SD) cannot see
the forest for
the trees and misinterpret the true esoteric teachings (based
solely on the
fundamental principles), is that they get sidetracked by going
too deeply
into the more or less confirmatory references to exoteric
religious teachings
of the Buddhists, Brahmins and Hebrews, that even among their own
sects are
often contradictory -- as well as referring to the primitive
science and
speculative philosophies of the I9th century that Blavatsky was
limited to at
the time. **

=============================

DTB See S D II 637 comparison of metaphysics

==============================


Another, is that HPB was forced to hint around the bush rather
than directly
explain the overall metaphysical scientific truths -- in accord
with her vows
as an initiated adept, which required that some key teachings be
withheld,
split and scattered out of context, or vaguely inferred -- so
that only those
of greater developed intuition and more integrated memory and
thought
processes would be able to grasp them in their entirety, and, in
the process,
realize the inherent cyclic triplicity of and between zero,
infinity, and the
entities (between them) that govern all causes and effects in
the universe.


====================================

DTB I would say that H P B had the greatest of "Intuitions"
and "Wisdom" at hand -- and certainly the MASTERS (who
co-certified as authors) had it.

As time has passed it is Science and Scientific thinkers like you
who have been able to penetrate into the metaphysics of the S D .

It is Science that is "catching up" with the S D

And it is also demonstrating that the WISDOM includes what is now
being uncovered since she wrote over 100 years ago.

I say that NATURE already contains EVERYTHING and the Science is
only uncovering what is already there. If there is agreement then
novelty is for those only who have Not Studied THEOSOPHY in
depth.

There is no real NOVELTY. But there is a continual CONFIRMATION
of the accuracy of the S D and its statements -- the present
emerges from those statements and we have seen it emerging in the
past years of our observation. {I used to work for the D VAN
NOSTRAND CO. As one of their staff, and also as editor in
science for review and verification.}

=================================




**Incidentally, if HPB was to write the SD today with reference
to modern and
post modern scientific theories of relativity, quanta,
super-strings,
membranes, holography, chaos, simplicity, complexity, etc., (some
of which
still are not consistent with each other) there would be much
less room for
misinterpretation of the basic laws that govern karma,
reincarnation, and
other theosophical truths that thoroughly and consistently
integrates zero,
infinity, and all that lies between.

LHM

============================

best wishes, as always,

Dallas


CUT