Theos-Talk Archives (January 2002 Message tt00016)

January 2, 2002

Re: What does ASTROLOGY mean ?
What aspect of our nature responds to the concept
of discovering the future?
If we were to secure accurate knowledge -- what
would we use it for ?

Dear Friends:

I wonder if I might be allowed to break in here with my 2 c ?

We are all involved in considering a most important aspect of our
lives, even though we may be many miles apart. May we consider a
few facts of our common living?

We live together, here and now, on the Earth. This appears to
be FATE. But, are we not associated with some vital and useful
function here ? How can we assure ourselves of the justice of
this situation? What is our actual relation with our environment
and with others around us ? Why do some "accept" their situation
and others "are dissatisfied, and want to move?" Other it is
true only want to discover if their position is fair and just to
them. Can thy secure proof that this is so ?

Also, that you (and I, and all of us) live in a body, and can
direct it pretty much as you / we decide, -- this ought to settle
the question of existence (I THINK, THEREFORE, I AM ); and, of
(FREE WILL) = I CHOOSE. (But our choices are found on
retrospect to be limited by things we opted for in the past and
present, even if they are "free" for the future.)

Obviously any present choices we may make, are going to affect
our future. If I should stick my head below water, and keep it
there, I will inevitably drown. If I put my finger in boiling
water, it gets scalded, etc... We all know of common laws in
nature that produce instantaneous results.

We are uncertain when, and how, the moral (ethical) effects of
actions or decisions we make, are going to turn up. The question
is fundamentally: Are there any ethical and moral Laws in nature?
Are we involved in them? How shall we define the concept of
morals and ethics? Is it community convenience, are they actual
rules and laws common to every aspect of Nature ? How ought we
to approach them? Is religion the only arbiter and judge of such
matters? If so, then what is the place of common jurisprudence?
What is that based on ?

Is there such a thing as "Conscience?" What is "Intuition? How
do we know that what is "right" for us, is also "right" for
others ? What aspect of our nature permits these faculties to
exist? Is there an innate sense of justice and fairness? Can we
agree on such things?

We are also uncertain about the Soul. Do we have one? In which
case, who or what are "We ?" And what does a "Soul" do ? Is it
useful? How so ? Can it be defined? Does it think? Does it
act? Is it a thing, or a figment of the imagination?

We all have this faculty to ask questions, and to seek for
answers -- so perhaps that is not in question.

But the duality of our being is:

1). The body is independent of, and yet, is also responsive
to the directions given to it by our decisions backed by that
mysterious force we call the WILL. There is here, a give / take
relationship. In other words the objective seems to be the
slave, tool, servant, etc... of the SUBJECTIVE, the INVISIBLE
MAN. Is this true?

2), The CHOOSER, or the WILLER is (or lives) inside of the
body -- and examination and definition. makes it appears to
consist of a pair of contrasting positions, each having
administrative and seemingly independent, but opposite, powers.
If we look within ourselves, at what we call loosely the psychic
nature -- ours -- we may discover that they are also
interrelated and conjoined with the faculties generally ascribed
to Mind -- but, somehow, different. These two are:

1.) Our emotions consisting of feelings, opinions, desires,
passions, and such other elements as greed, anger, wants,
desire, -- all focused on the health and continued well-being of
the personal being that we are (including the body).

2.) Our Mind, which (when it is detached from the feelings
and emotions) is colorless. It can be directed to consider the
elements of discovery, memory; it discriminates and weighs the
potential effects of various courses (and possible results) of
potential actions -- it employs the logic of fact and also of
imagination, and it knows the difference between the two. It can
plan and then accept or reject the possible results of the
adoption of several or many plans. It has sometimes been called
the PLANNER. By observation it seems that the Mind has superior
powers of decision making than those of the "desire-nature."

When we say "WE," do we mean the Mind? But examination shows
that WE direct our minds where we WILL. The answer to the
question: "Who are We." remains to be settled. What emerges is
that the Mind in each of us is like a tool that can be employed,
directed and supervised. It also seems to occasionally use
executive powers under the influence of the two powers discussed
above: the "desires and passions, and 2, the wisdom of
experience which as memory is also part of our make-up.

If we consider the existence and the action of our Mind, we
discover that at one end, it is very wise because it is in
constant contact with the WISE SPIRITUAL Base of our IMMORTAL
BEING. This basis is -- universal -- and it is designated SPIRIT
because it tends to provide fair, just, and generally useful
suggestion and answers to our problems. It is also distinguished
by the fact that all its applications, which are virtuous, such
as Universal brotherhood appear to be common sentiments among all
honorable humans. It appreciates universal laws that are
generous, charitable, honorable, harmonious with others' needs
and wants. There is in us, (we all find) a resident Memory of
all experiences we have been through in this and earlier lives.
Theosophy calls it BUDDHI ( Wisdom) and states that it has memory
tablets (called the Akasic record) which is imperishable. On it
are recorded the acts and motives of all beings. If we want to
know our Karma we have to learn how to read those Akasic records
relative to ourselves -- as imperishable Monads, who have been
through all experiences in the past.

At the other end, we may discover that there is a tendency to
rashness and daring, that urges us to follow the impulses of our
DESIRE NATURE. To that extent it embodies folly. It can be most
persuasive, as it tends to maximize the possible selfish benefits
of actions which benefit itself (ourselves) alone if adopted.
This aspect inspires us with the false courage of discovery -- a
willingness to take a "leap of faith" even if we have no idea of
what conditions, so far invisible, are going to be. It might be
termed rashness and daring, and a careless disregard for others
and for our own selves.

Any set of circumstances arises from its own past. It owes its
"past" to the decisions we made "then." This line of recession is
infinitely long as we deal with an entity (the MONAD) which is
defined as "eternal." Of course if we deny such an immortality,
then we are left with the personality encased in the body of the
moment which has usually our most intense consideration. But we
are still unable to answer the question: "Why am I here? What
can I do? Is there an optimum method of living ? Am I following
such a program ?

Let us see what Theosophy has to tell us: The Immortal Monad (as
an eternal ENTITY), does not incarnate for its own private or
personal advantage, or "good." It incarnates and forms an
association with the "Personality" of the "monad of lesser
experience" it is befriending.
It is a partnership in which the experienced Monad can only
ADVISE the actual Monad (of lesser experience) that is involved.
[ See TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE, pp. 66 to 78. ;
BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. X; se also S D II 167,
246, 254-5, 275]

Of course there are limits to "free-will" as to capacity -- we
cannot fly by ourselves even though we may "will" it. But, using
the mind and after much trial and effort, we can build an
airplane. The airplane enables flight for us, but it also
harnesses the forces and properties of materials which Nature has
provided. In the process of devising, we learn all those.
levitation is also spoken of and cases advanced where it has been
witnessed -- but the causes and reasons for such unusual events
remain secrets of Nature.

Yet, we imagine if we had "magical powers" we could employ them
to change our condition of wealth, comfort, pleasure, etc... But
let us ask: How does Nature control such a situation ? Can it
be considered to be an excess? By the application of fair, just
and equal laws to all, how does it happen? Karma is the
answer -- it does not "punish" but only readjusts -- How? By
placing us (who choose) into the exact position of the persons we
may choose to oppress or to make our victims in the past.
Similarly for "good." if we do good we reap the recompense in
equal and fair measure. Nature is never unjust

If we analyse it, the only reason we do evil or act selfishly is
because we think we can "escape" the consequences of our selfish
decisions and acts. Nature does not permit this. It always
represents equal justice for all. We will be forced to make
restitution eventually.

And so on.

Dal

=================

-----Original Message-----
From: M----n S-------t
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 2:10 PM
To:
Subject:: H P B on ASTROLOGY


Hi D-----, and all of you,


Thank you for your answer.

With - free will - I talk about a 'choice' or a 'choosing'. But
your answer below - it won't help.
Because if - everything is pre-determined, - then there is no -
free will - to chose at all !! The - CAUSE - you talk about - is
then already decided upon ! To think different - would break the
Astrologers possibility to predict. Then there would be not exact
mathematical prediction - but rather - "star-guessing" or the
like.

Then - one is sort of a robot, - because whatever one chooses to
do - it is already planned ahead - and - even the Astrologist
next doors knows about it !! So if get angry - then I couldn't
avoid it could I - because it was planned ahead - without me
knowing of it. So how can one change - if there is no choice - to
change my situation with. Horrific thoughts !! An unfair scheme
!

Do you all think - that God - Parabrahman has planned
everything - ahead ?

==================================

DTB I Think Theosophy would say we are as much a part of
Parabrahm today as we were when time began and will so remain.
Equity and fairness, justice and harmony are the ruling laws of
Nature. One might think of Parabrahm as the OMNIPRESENCE of
Deity.

DTB NO we are not the playthings of an inscrutable Deity.
The Deific principle is universal and we have the same share
everyone else has. There cannot be a PERSONAL GOD. there would
be too many anomalies to have to explain, injustices, etc....

------------------------------------------------------------

Of course there must be a solution to this problem. But which one
?

But D---d, you are welcome to explain this further, if you feel
you are up to it.

Is there anyone with a good explanation ?

from S---------t

================


Original Message -----
From: " D ------ G ------.
To: M------ S----------
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 8:30 PM
Subject: H P B on ASTROLOGY


> M--------,
> Your question about free will and astrology is not so
complicated
> when we put the principle of responsibility into the equation.
We have
> free will in terms of "cause" but not in terms of "effect".
Dallas said
> that in so many words. When he referred to Karma he was
speaking in
> terms of the effect side of the law. The causal side always
involves
> free-will and choice. (Of course we can go into the subtleties
of just
> what that really implies. It might make a good exploration.
>
>
> Happy New Year, D
>
>