Theos-Talk Archives (December 2001 Message tt00195)

Nobody has accused Blavatsky of using alcohol or being
"a deranged inebriate"

There is some evidence that during the New York period
there was some experimenting with botanical
substances.

Pls. refer to the quotes from Joscelyn Godwin and
Patrick Devenbey and Emma Hardinge-Britten posted by
Brigitte Muhlegger for definitive proof.

Please refer to the references posted by me to the
writings of Olcott, Rawson, and Blavatsky for more
proof.

Please refer to the anecdote posted by Daniel Caldwell
for still more proof.

One of her teachers was PB Randolph, and he was into
all sorts of botanical stimulants as has been well
documented.

Blavatsk insisted there was something "secret" about
her movement, and it is likely this was the secret.

Whether this experimenting went on after 1879 is
problematic.

--- dalval14@earthlink.net wrote:
> Tuesday, December 11, 2001
> 
> Re: Me. Blavatsky -- teacher of THEOSOPHY.
> 
> Dear Friend:
> 
> 
> As you see I am for the truth, and not for opinion
> in any way.
> Not am I a friend of gossip.
> 
> That is why I do not meddle in the past opinions
> concerning
> people, but rather, go to what they have written, so
> as t see
> what they had to say. I would trust that rather
> than any
> intermediary or interpreter.
> 
> If we agree to do that, then there is no contention.
> 
> WHERE HAS MME. BLAVATSKY ADVOCATED THE USE OF DRUGS
> OR ALCOHOL?
> Where has she actually been seen handling these
> drugs? Is there,
> in her writings, and evidence of the ravings of a
> confused
> inebriate? You say that she supplied the evidence. 
> Where,
> please ? Yes, if evidence and proof is available, I
> will be
> satisfied. Where may I find it?
> 
> Everyone's "academic" freedom is at stake here, and
> not any one
> in particular. In my opinion "ACADEMIES" count for
> nothing
> However, if we universalize and impersonalize
> statements, then we
> get are more likely to get at the truth. I stand
> for clear
> speech and clear evidence, if available. And I am
> not afraid to
> risk anything in that search. I also ask that a
> "level field" be
> used -- and that any evidence to backup statements
> be made
> available.
> 
> I happened to use S. Cranston's BIOGRAPHY as one of
> the best
> researched (using, as far as I could find, the
> necessary
> documentary sources that I have also found so far,
> and therefore,
> I used it as a base. You, I, or anyone may use
> other bases, but
> then they ought to be made public and clear so that
> they can be
> checked out. I also mentioned Gomes THEOSOPHY IN
> THE NINETEENTH
> CENTURY.
> 
> As to the use of "soma." Certainly H P B wrote
> about it as it
> was in use for certain Vedic rituals of ceremonial
> magic and
> their mind of Initiation. Also she made clear that
> several herbs
> could be used. "Soma," in Sanskrit (and modern
> Indian languages
> derived from Sanskrit) means, among other things, as
> a "root" :
> "to sleep." And included in this "sleep" are the
> experiences
> that one might secure from induced visions and
> trances. This is
> made clear in ISIS UNVEILED, I xxxi, xxvii, xxxv,
> xl, 157,
> 357, II 43-4, 91, 117, 407-9, 513-4, 560, 590
> The THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY pp. 304, 255, S D II 
> 498-9,
> 45fn, 378, S D I 523fn; H P B Articles I p. 444,
> II p.
> 176-7, III p. 196; MAHATMA LETTERS p. 219, [ see
> also
> DIKTAMON in The THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY p. 102; 
> VERBENA in
> THEOSOPHIST, vol. 5, p. 117-9 (February, 1884)
> 
> If one reads the phenomena associated with a
> perception of the
> nature of the astral light, one will come across the
> statement
> that there are visions to be had there under the
> control of an
> ADEPT which have nothing to do with the use of
> physical
> "Hashish," and its effects as a drug, on the
> physiological brain
> and its ability to interpret experience. No where
> is it stated
> to my knowledge that it is the only drug that opens
> the door to
> such experience. However .... I would await an
> actual
> reference.
> 
> 
> As to Olcott providing the reference to the
> magazine, it carries
> little weight with me. I do not find he
> corroborates H P B's
> usage of drugs or intoxicating liquors.
> 
> I would be interested in securing a more accurate
> set of
> references. Please see below where I have inserted
> some queries.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Dallas
> 
> ==========================
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Stubbs [mailto:stevestubbs@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:44 AM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Theos-World Fumes, fumes, fumes! The
> botanical lapidation of HS Olcott
> 
> 
> DTB: "Let's be clear. If we are dealing with
> psychic
> phenomena and the effects emanating from the astral
> light, let us say so and provide the readership with
> actual textual sources."
> 
> Daniel Caldwell says so and has provided numerous
> "actual textual sources." I merely accepted his
> challenge to critique the phenomenon he cited.
> 
> DTB: "Is this single report by "Rawson" in FRANK
> LESLIE's POPULAR MONTHLY to stand against the whole
> volume of her teachings?"
> 
> 
> Nowhere did anyone suggest that Rawson's article
> should "stand against the whole volume of her
> teachings." That would be an utterly preposterous
> statement.
> 
> 
> DTB: "Further, it is an insinuation against H P B's
> character that cannot and does not find any support.
> I need more evidence before I accept or broadcast
> such
> information
> 
> Somehow I suspect no amount of evidence would
> satisfy
> you. The evidence, or most of it, is supplied by
> Blavatsky.
> 
> DTB: "I PROTEST THIS."
> 
> So do I. How dare anyone infringe on my academic
> freedom? Thanks for saying that, Dallas. I am glad
> to have you in my corner.
> 
> 
> DTB: "Have you found anything in the DOCUMENTARY
> BIOGRAPHY OF H P B by Sylvia Cranston that supports
> this? As far as I can determine she did not,
> repeat:
> NOT."
> 
> 
> It is ludicrous to say that Cranston has defined the
> limits of what can and cannot be investigated and
> that
> we need her imprimatur.
> 
> ====================================
> 
> 
> DALLAS	That is not what I said. As state I use
> her book and references as a hand "catch all
> As stated above, she has drawn together as far as I
> can
> determine, all the references on H.P.Blavatsky and
> commented on them.
> 
> ======================================
> 
> 
> DTB: "She was not interested in inducing visions,
> using "soma" or fumes, or anything else."
> 
=== message truncated ===


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