Theos-Talk Archives (December 2001 Message tt00131)

Brigitte Mühlegger claims:
Below an internet translation about the "Gestapo Müller archives".,
wich is a falsifacation.

Frank:
They are real.

Brigitte:
STEFFEN WERNER/the Gestapo Mueller falsification
Heinrich Mueller, Chef of the Gestapo, who "Gestapo Mueller", has the
war survived, itself into Switzerland saved and later for the
Americans worked! Thus Gregory maintains Douglas in the book "secret
document Mueller", whom the Druffel publishing house in the autumn

Frank:
Don't know who this ass Steffen Werner is, but he is wrong.
The actual title of the 3 books serious (plus 1 vol. Muller diaries, dealing
with the US policy when he worked in Washington, D.C.) is:
"The 1948 Interrogation of Heinrich Muller" vol. 1-3, see
http://www.bender-publishing.com/

Brigitte/Werner:
published 1995. The book contains minutes from American archives of
discussions, which Mueller with the Americans is to have led 1948 in
Switzerland. It supplemental by Nachbemerkungen of the publisher.
The Americans wanted to find out by these discussions whether they
could use Mueller for their goals. Minutes contain countless details,
which promise unusual explanations about time-historical operational
sequence of the third realm. Mueller practices frank, sharp criticism
at the war opponents of Germany. That reads itself everything very
prettily. In order to make it short: Stutzig becomes the reader by
atmospheric particularnesses - so want to fit many formulations of
Mueller badly a Bavarian policeman - and by countless material
discrepancies, with whose enumerating sides could be filled! With

Frank:
Wrong. The German edition clearly states that this book is a translation
from the American.
I have found no discrepancies, except when you compare it with the
conventional historical statements. But I don't believe that the mass medias
produce always the absolute truths. When I have a source I measure it on its
own inner logic and not on outer authority. The Muller files have an inner
logic,although they may not always fit the official version.
What makes ME stutzig is that I heard from neo-nazis that they don't believe
in the origin but the Jewish Simon Wiesenthal Center does it, according to
two German newspaper reports in the both mainstream and philosemitic
Frankfurter Alllgemeine Zeitung of 28 Febr. 2001 and the Swiss Neue Zuricher
Zeitung of 30 April 2001. Strange development!

Brigitte/Werner:
more exact Hinsehen the book than falsification emerges!
>From the philosophy the falsification is skillfully put on. Mueller
quotes much after its as exzellent described memory. That does not
exclude mistakes naturally. Besides it must rely with its knowledge
on reports third. Thus error can be explained fast. But Mueller from

Frank:
Wrong. Muller's excellent memory was well known even before war and that was
one
reason why he had so much success in his job. The interrogation (which were
actually rather interviews) happened over weeks with pauses for dinner
etc. Asked by US CIC on certain details, dates etc. he spoke from memory
stating that he could err one or two days and referred to his documents.
That
is not unusual, but rather a professional and fair manner. F.e. on p. 218,
vol. 1, Muller says: "Certainly. If I may make some notes here to refresh
my memory as to dates and times, I will begin."

Brigitte/Werner:
first hand knows a range of topics of minutes: Its escape from
Berlin - and this is only past three years. And here are
haarstraeubende errors. Skillfully to falsify is obviously probably
nevertheless very heavy, if an examination of the texts is not
prevented by other circumstances! Mueller's representations to be
analyzed and the most serious errors are to be introduced.
Mueller's escape begins with an absurdity. From Hitler personally
Mueller keeps a brief case "full Swiss Banknoten"[1 direct for his
escape on 29 April ] as gift. Hitler in contrast lets the brother-in-
law of EH brown, sweeping flax, contact man of many years between
Hitler and Himmler shoot some dozen of hours before, because he set
off wollte[2 ] - and that, although he will marry hours of late EH
brown!

Frank:
Wrong. Muller was not the brother-in-law, but rather the witness to a
marriage.
The sequence of the incidents is correct, its a self fulfilling prophecy of
the critic that there are contradictions. These are not in the files but
only in his twisted mind, he intermixes the two different and to be
distinguished levels: the one the true story and the other the conscious
fake story of Hitler's etc. suicide as a covert operation to fool the
Allies. Muller says three times (pp. 191, 192, 208) that Hitler and Eva
Braun left Berlin on 22 April 1945, Muller left Berlin 29 April, one week
later. The story is in itself logically. On p. 196 there is the official
Soviet photograph of the dead Hitler in the Chancellery. Although he looks
like Hitler its clearly shown by looking at the ears that this are not
Hitler's ears as his one were round and the ears on the photo are not round.
The dead man was one of three doubles Hitler used. The same method of
shooting doubles was used also for Eva Hitler and Muller himself.
Its a matter of fact that Stalin asked his Allies on the Potsdam conference
were Hitler is, that means that Stalin knew that they had only a double:
"July 17, 1945, Josef Stalin to President Harry Truman and US Secretary of
State James Byrnes at the Potsdam Conference, "I believe Hitler is alive.
Careful investigation by Soviet investigators has not found any trace of
Hitler's remains or any other positive evidence of death" (.p. 212).

Recent research in Moscow of the teeth of the alleged remains compared with
survived x-ray photos of Hitler's teeth show that they are not identical and
so the head stored in Moscow is not Hitler's one. World leading Hitler
expert Werner Maser clearly states: "The corpse of the real Hitler was never
found". These same counts for the other ones.

Brigitte/Werner:
In the evening 29 of April against 23 o'clock Mueller with its pilot
in a two-seat Fiseler stork starts in the middle in the combat area
in a road in the zoo. The pilot vacates first by soldiers the road
frei![3 ] from where and as the machine came into the zoo, why

Frank:
Wrong. Muller says on p. 220 that he started "from a road in the
Tiergarten", not the zoo. Obviously Brigitte's "expert" does not even know
the single fact that the Tiergarten is not a
zoo, but the name of a city district in Berlin, which Muller on p. 220
clearly and right names as the "government quarter". Wow! Again, the
problems are not in the Muller files but in the mind of the critic.

Brigitte/Werner:
Mueller not with the pilot together from the location of the machine
flew off, Mueller ignores such questions geflissentlich.

Frank:
Wrong. Muller ignores that not geflissentlich but describes all very
gewissenhaft. He did not say that he separated from his pilot, he rather say
that they were both sitting in the plane: "At this time, the Russians were
closing in on the government quarter and were fighting on the south side of
the Spree around the Reichstag building. We [!! FR] took off about 2300
hours from a road in the Tiergarten and that was, thinking back, the worst
part of the flight. There was heavy fighting in the area and shelling so we
[!!FR] were not sure if we would be hit or if the road would be blown up at
the last instant. The city was mostly dark but there were fires to the north
and south and the sky was lit up quite a bit then. The pilot checked the
road and some of our soldiers asked him what he was doing. He was a good
talker and he got some of them to drag a blown down tree off the road and
then we [!! FR] took off. That was the most dangerous time for certain. This
aircraft climbed quickly and we got above the trees almost at once. Then we
could see the battle right below us as we got altitude. You could see the
flash of artillery and hear the noise over the engine without any trouble
at all....."

Brigitte/Werner:
The machine remains completely unnoticed after the start by the
enemy. Hanna Reitsch[4 ] describes the situation completely
differently. When it wants to fly with colonel general von Greim on
26 April of the airport Rechlin out to Berlin, no airplane was come
through to Berlin for two days. The helicopter reserved for the
flight was destroyed before the takeoff with a bomb attack. With a
FW190, the fastest machine, which still possesses Rechlin, is with
escort from thirty hunters to Gatow. There the stork, with which the
flight was planned to Berlin, is destroyed briefly before the start
by an artillery hit. A second stork is fired at after the start
immediately, met by dirt by a tank high explosive shell wounded, the
machine by impacts, and the surface tanks lose nearly all gasoline up
to the landing.

Frank:
Wrong. Muller explains that the situation in Berlin City on April 29 was a
little bit different from the days before. P. 220: "The second worry,
besides ground fire, was Soviet aircraft. There had been no bombing raids on
Berlin for a while because the Russians were fighting inside the city and
since the Americans and British never bothered to aim at anything when they
dropped their bombs, it was no doubt agreed to stop the raids. It wouldn't
do to kill a few Soviets. Now, of course, they probably wish they had bombed
Moscow and called it pilot error. We flew southwest to get away from the
city. I can remember looking down the right and seeing a flight of three
Russian fighter aircraft below us, flying to the north. Just the shadows
against the light from the fires. Those were the only aircraft we saw on the
entire flight but it was not pleasant to see them...."

Brigitte/Werner:
As escape route Mueller Berlin - Beelitz - selects Chemnitz -
Salzburg - Innsbruck - Swiss border. Mueller marks: "under us already
were Russians". For this escape route, which offers itself on the

Frank:
Wrong. Actually Muller says (p.220): "...From Beelitz we went towards
Chemnitz. Below us were the Russians and the other worry was that we might
have to make an emergency landing. Fortunately, this did not happen and from
Chemnitz we flew direct to Salzburg. There was broken cloud cover and some
bad weather but we flew above it. It was impossible to see the ground most
of the time, and of course, when we were over German territory, all the
lights were turned out below so it was instrument flying the whole way. The
pilot could understand Russian and English and listened to the radio almost
the entire time. Every so often, he would turn around and give me some piece
of information that he overheard. It was all bad news but nothing about
aircraft movements and no indications the Americans were out. As we got
further south, he kept listening to their wavelengths to see if he could
hear any aircraft communications but only once and then nothing important.
At Salzburg we turned southwest for Innsbruck and then went almost west to
Switzerland..."

Brigitte/Werner:
map, there is still another very plausible reason, which Mueller does
not incomprehensible-prove calls: Up to the short distance from
Berlin to gate gau the escape route was still feindfrei.[6 ]

Frank:
This is fake, its neither in the original nor in the German edition.
Pray hell, what is a gate gau???

Brigitte/Werner:
The airplane lands five kilometers in the morning without pause
against 4 o'clock, before Swiss east border. The landing strip is so
difficult to reach that, like that, is possible for Mueller only
by a helicopter or by a special airplane like a Fiseler stork.
Despite this adventurous situation trees had been gerodet before
there, a shed had been transported established and a motorcycle with
sidecar. Who organizes these work, who did not let fly the workers
there, who brought the motorcycle there, mentions Mueller
unfortunately. This section puts still more fully different
strangenesses.

Frank:
Wrong. Muller actually says (pp. 220-1): "The eastern border. The sky was
becoming light in the east and the cloud cover not over our landing area,
which had been cleared of trees some time before and was about 5 kilometers
from the border. The only way to get to it, really, was by air and only with
a helicopter, of which we had a few then, or a "Stork" plane. The pilot
wanted to land so he didn't have to turn on the landing light and he was
able to do so, sometime after 0400 hours."
He does not say that the clearing of trees was his work or ordered by him.
Had the area not clearing they probably had to look out for a better landing
place.

"After we landed, I climbed out after him and we moved the plane under the
trees into a revetment that had been set up for it earlier, when he was
smuggling agents. At that time we changed our air force uniforms for
civilian clothing. I supplied papers for both of us showing we were Swiss
citizens. The pilot also spoke the Swiss/German dialect which is very
difficult to master and he was to do all the talking if necessary. Besides,
he actually lived in the country before the war...
In a small shed back in the trees, he had a motorbike with Swiss plates and
a sidecar. We put the baggage into the sidecar and drove off through the
woods with me on the back seat."

What Muller here describes is routine work for every spy, and why should
the boss of the Gestapo not have been able to hide a motorcycle in the woods
near the border? The Gestapo people were also working in Switzerland as in
nearly every land (including USA).


Brigitte/Werner:
Mueller and Pilot push the airplane under trees, and then it
continues with the motorcycle. "it was a most interesting travel over
the border and then the mountain down there. It was a smuggler route.
One could not see it from air and even not, if one... Finally we came
on a circle road, and the problem was geloest."[7 ] from there goes
it further into a house at a lake somewhere between the Bodensee and
Vaduz.
Mueller must have exceeded the border between Liechtenstein and the
Bodensee. The border section below Liechtenstein, to the canton grey

Frank:
He says himself (p. 221): "The pilot had a small house on a large lake. This
was within a nice drive by automobile to Vaduz [[Capital of Liechtenstein]]
and a little further along to the Boden Lake. Look it up on a map. I slept
straight enough for two days after that."

Brigitte/Werner:
Since Mueller planned his escape 1944 and neither the time of the
escape nor the weather conditions could foresee, a landing strip in
the high alps separates already therefore. Consequently Mueller
mentions also no snow, also there are in this height in the north
alps no trees, the tree belt ends at 1800 Meter.[10 ] for all these
reasons can a transition not have happened here, apart from
gebirgigen conditions of the high alps, where a motorcycle with
sidecar would not find a way.

Frank:
Wrong. Muller gives no details about the exactly point where he goes over
the border. The reason may be to protect his co-workers. What he says is:
"It was a most interesting trip over the border and down the side of a
mountain. There was a smuggler's road there that you could not see from the
air or even if you were standing on it. He had been up and down it a number
of times but I would not wish to try by myself unless I was crazy or at
night ever. We got to a secondary road eventually and that problem was
over."

Brigitte/Werner:
Thus only the border section remains above Liechtenstein. Who exceeds
the border here, must in each case the Rhine cross. In April 1945
tried allied prisoners of war, German soldiers, to arrive to
immigrant worker or KZ prisoners into Switzerland. On 21 April Swiss
Upper House of Parliament decided the total locking of the border,
their military guard became verstaerkt.[11 ] unclear one places at
the border between Germany and Switzerland became for example in the
Hegau of Swiss by stacheldraht markiert.[12 ] from German side became
the bridges in the Vorarlberg the breakup vorbereitet.[13 ]

Frank:
Wrong. Muller mentions that he and his pilot had Swiss passport and his
pilot spoke Swiss dialect so there was no problem for them to go over the
border.

Brigitte/Werner:
But Mueller and Pilot drive lively by the area without noticing the
Rhine, a Rhine bridge and the border guarding soldiers, neither
Germans nor Swiss, - and without of them despite the surely not quiet
motorcycle to be heard.

Frank:
Wrong. To Vaduz they drove by automobile.

Brigitte/Werner:
Pretty also Mueller's conclusion is after
reaching Switzerland: "I noticed that very few people on the way
were. When I the mentioned, the pilot said: Surely, Mr. General,
today is also Sonntag!"[14 ] 30 April 1945 was nevertheless one
Monday!

Frank:
Wrong. Muller never said that he spoke of 30 April, all he said was that it
was a Sunday. He never said that April 30th was a Sunday. And there are many
Sundays each year! P. 221: "I noticed that there were very few people about
and the pilot said to me when I mentioned this, "Of course General, it's
Sunday today!" but I had lost complete track of time in those days... The
pilot had a small house on a large lake..."

Brigitte/Werner:
The distance of Berlin up to Swiss the border indicates Mueller at
750 km. I have the route checked and come on 840 km air line, the way
of the machine must be thus longer.

Frank:
Wrong. The distance Berlin-Munich is 585 kilometers, Salzburg is (speaking
generally) on nearly the same height, so Muller is quite correct when he
remembers a750 kilometers distance.

Brigitte/Werner:
The Fiseler stork, which Mueller
used, was a two-seater. Of the well-known Varianten[15 ] only the
reconnaissance aircraft version F 156C-2 is applicable. This machine
has a range of 385 km! Mueller reports of no intermediate stop, which
would have had to happen first in the protectorate Boehmen Maehren!

Frank:
Wrong. On p. 220 Muller says: "There was additional tankage that gave us a
range of a thousand kilometers and as the actual distance was about 750
kilometers, there was petrol enough to spare in case of an emergency." P.
219 shows exactly the same type of airplane Fieseler Storch Fi 156 Muller
used. The compiler Gregory Douglas add: "Note additional fuel tank under its
belly for long distance flying."

Brigitte/Werner:
There is a special design with an auxiliary tank of 200 litres, but
the machine knows only the pilot tragen.[16 ] after Mueller lasted
there the flight including takeoff and landing five hours. The
Fiseler stork has a cruising speed of 130 km/h.[17 ] after five hours
the machine back straight 650 km would have put, takeoff and landing,
and only quite an intermediate stop would not have counted.

Frank:
Wrong. There is no mention about the capacity of the additional tank. There
is no mention that the speed is 130 km/h, all what Muller says is (p. 219):
"Also, it could land in about 130 meters." Even if the speed of 130km/h is
correct, it would be enough time to start in Berlin "about 2300 hours" (p.
220) and to land in the Salzburg-Innsbruck area "sometime after 0400 hours"
(p.221) as 5,5 x 130 makes 715.
And even if Muller's memory in Sept.-Oct. 1948 failed about this little
detail in April-May 1945 that would be to me no proof that the things did
not happen as he says because there is an inner logic.

Brigitte/Werner:
Therefore the escape of Mueller, as it is described, can not have
taken place for technical reasons at all. Other reasons, which speak
against the authenticity, are the scenario of the takeoff from Berlin
and the transition over Swiss border. The author knows neither the
course of the border, who population density of the region, nor has
he the time at the end of April 1945 at Swiss border experienced.
Mueller's escape must be freely invented!

Frank:
Wrong. It must not. It must only if one limits oneself to his/her
prejudices.
That Muller gave not all theoretical possible details is explained by the
fact that he, when asked by US Intelligence, gave first general information
and only about that what was exactly asked. The second reason is that as the
time of this part of the "interrogation" Muller was not sure if the talks
will result in a German-American cooperation or not. The third thing is that
he wanted to protect the Gestapo co-workers. Despite the fact, that the
German Army capitulated on May 8th, 1945 the Gestapo continued its work.
What Brigitte Muhlegger and Steffen Werner present as "critic" is absolutely
nonsense and complete disinformation about the contents of the Muller
archives.

Vol. 3 of the series, p. 286 has a postwar photo of Muller when he worked in
Washington. The compiler Gregory Douglas states that he met him in the
1960's.
In the Foreword to Vol. 1 Frank Thayer, Ph.D., New Mexico State University,
Las Cruces closes with the words: "Heinrich Muller was present in the
opening seconds of the Second World War and left the stage of history in the
final battle in Berlin. This is a work that stands on its own feet and will
certainly be impossible to put down."

The compiler writes in the intro on p. 14:

"Many historians, who consider themselves creative writers, lard their
accounts with such nonsense as "Roosevelt smiled to himself as he
thought..." or "Hitler frowned and looked out of the window, hoping to find
time to walk his dog." This is called artistic license and has no business
whatsoever in a serious historical work. Muller summed up this type of
reportage with pungent comments about letting professional police detectives
write history. It was his contention that the finished product might not be
as pretty but would be a good deal more accurate.

Given the position Muller occupied in the Third Reich and the role he played
during its course, the question arises as to why no writer or historian has
made any attempt to produce a work on the head of the Gestapo. Aside from
several pages in two of Heinz Hoehne's books and some material in Aronson,
there is almost nothing in print about Heinrich Muller, and much of that
extremely superficial or inaccurate. Although considerable information does
exist in official files in archives, Muller has fallen through the cracks
for several reasons.

Primarily, Heinrich Muller was a man who neither sought nor encouraged
publicity. Unlike many of Hitler's satraps, Muller disliked public display
and was rarely photographed. Also, Muller was devoted to hard work and
results, and preferred to work in private.
Secondarily, writers are drawn to the dramatic and flamboyant, not the cold
and secretive. Most treatments of historical personages consist, in the
main, of wholesale filchings from previous writers, gotten up in new
clothing but without substance. In the academic world, this is called
plagiarism, which it is, but instead labeled as research, which it is not.
Thirdly, U.S. intelligence agencies give every appearance of being
singularly displeased by any mention of the name of Heinrich Muller.

In an era where impolite commentary is considered negative and is forcefully
excluded from the media and literature, Muller's sarcastic and often brutal
comments will no doubt offend those who deplore such statements as
destructive of self-esteem. Nature never found it necessary to teach sheep
self-esteem when the wolves were hungry. When janitors are elevated with a
title of "Sanitary Engineer", when Mongoloids are called "differently abled"
and militant Lesbians become "Feminists", a work on Muller should no doubt
be concerned with the fine views from his study window of Swiss mountains
and the lake reflecting them.

In 1973, West German authorities issued a warrant for the arrest of Heinrich
Muller, having good reason to believe that he did not die in Berlin in 1945.
Correspondence, still classified in US files, between German legal agencies
and their US counterparts indicates unhappiness, frustration and growing
displeasure on the part of the Germans and classic stonewalling on the part
of the Americans. Portions of Muller's US CIC files now in Ft. Meade,
Maryland, have been censored. None of the documents refused to researchers
deal with immediate postwar searches for Muller but cover a much later
period. The reasons given for continued classification is that their release
would adversely affect US national security."

On the Pearl Harbor case the compiler writes on p. 15: "The original
transcripts of the Roosevelt-Churchill conversations were made by German
intelligence personnel in the English language and then translated into
German. There are a number of original misspellings in these documents which
are indicated by (sic). The originals of the significant Pearl Harbor
conversation are to be found in the appendix and the German text noted,
unchanged."

On of the main reasons why the Gestapo boss was actually employed by US
intelligence and that Muller helped to launch the CIA can to my humble
understanding be found in vol. 2, pp. 207, ch. "Listing of Communist Groups
in the United States" which shows clearly that German intelligence was much
better informed (and experienced) what happening in the US then the US
intelligence and that the situation in 1948/9 was very serious, the USA
being in fact just before a plot - a situation similar serious as the recent
(and not yet finished) attempt to take over the government by a certain
group with the US.

The German edition of vol. 1 was prohibited by the German state. The German
publisher states to have information in 1965 in Pretoria, South Africa, that
Muller is still alive and working in USA. Also Rudel visited him in the 70's
saying the same. He knows also a man in Spain who knows post-war Muller.
Also the German publisher has requested German intelligence sources which
confirmed the authenticity of the Muller archives.
The book (also vol. 2, vol. 3 and the Muller diaries never appeared in
German) was prohibited in Germany by the court Amtsgericht Starnberg, file
no. 2 Ds 11 Js 24942/96. German book consumers must not know that both
Hitler and Muller survived and that he built up the CIA, which in the turn
built up the West German intelligence Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) in
Pullach at Munich, headed by Reinhard Gehlen.

In the Muller diaries the compiler reports of the necessarity of
professional protection of his archives and growing pressure in the USA
about the publication. In this post-war diaries (which Muller never planned
to be published) the US policy (Roosevelt, Stalin, Pearl Harbor, Korea, JFK,
Vietnam, UFOs) looks not much like the mass media reports.