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RE: [bn-study] FW: Re: memorable quotes

Dec 06, 2001 06:38 PM
by dalval14

Thursday, December 06, 2001

Dear CeeKaye,

This started out to be brief. But, it developed. I also put
some notes in the body of the text of your letter.

Perhaps you could help me and say exactly where in letters you
found the quotation you are basing your letter on. Look for
instance on p. 6, letter iv -- does that endorse what you
write about ? Or look at p. 14 (letter vii ) or try letter
viii on p. 17 ... or is it letter xii ?

Your question -- no we are not obliged to bite off more than we
can chew. But. Are we aware of our capacity to bite, and our
capacity to chew? Have we tested ourselves?

There is a problem that all face if they are brought up in some
form of Christianity. We are not asked to try to understand the
sermon on the mount. Why does Jesus say what he does? What is
the logic embedded in that ? If we can find the answer then we
will all gain a great deal. One of the great pities is that the
concept of reincarnation and the immortality and continuity of
the human soul have been suppressed by the priesthood -- although
th evidence of their existence is present in the bible and Jesus'

Since theosophy is the doctrine of those who are actively aware
of the universal spiritual quality, and say, that everyone of us
can trace our descent from that, they do not share in the many
diversions and differences of opinion that are current in the
world. They focus all the time on that which can be done as the
greater "good," for the greater number of people.

Does that mean they are "perfect?" No. It only means they have
understood that those ideals are not unreachable, and they are
trying, struggling with their own lower natures to realize and to
act on the higher and more spiritual verities. It is a hard job.
And it will probably take a number of incarnations to get
anywhere far of such an unpopular path.

Theosophy desires everyone to be free to think and then act as
they believe is best for themselves, and hopefully it is right
for all. It does not inculcate blind belief, and certainly
refuses point blank to have anything to do with any "army" or
"corps attitude."

Their (Master's) focus is to make others aware of their(each
individual's) own inherent "god-like nature." "look inward, thou
art Buddha." [Voice ] -- "know ye not ye are gods?" -- Jesus
[ John. 10 : 34-5 ] and having tried to awaken people to the true
and just in them, it gives them complete freedom to elect what
actions they choose. That is how nature works. It is also the
way in which the masters work for humanity.

As i think this over now, as in the past, I do not think concern
over: "the degrees of "perfection" need to be identified to us."
What would we be able to do with the information?

I cannot understand your analogy. What is its basis? What do
you know of the life and teachings of the Buddha ? Have your
instance read the Dhammapada ? Or have you ever read sir Edwin
Arnold's the Light of Asia ? [ SEE MY NOTES BELOW, PLEASE ]

No if you think that the spiritual life is like an ordinary army
where people do what they are told to do thoughtlessly the i am
afraid you've missed the point. I am probably being too literal.
If you look at p. 40, (letter xii) you will get a picture of the
whole of humanity as a host engaged in the effort to enlighten
itself. It is the universal process of self-development.

But that development is not following any kind of a ritual,
ceremony, or pronouncing words we do not understand, and all the
rest of the "magical" nonsense. It is widening our mind and
comprehension to grasp the whole of the situation we are in.

We have ceased being children and are now adults. The school of
humanity is for adults who can think. Nature rules this school
and has embedded in it the rules and laws of the ethical and
moral patterns that underlie and unite all the motives that
everyone generates as the live from moment to moment. Pages 41
and 42 (letter xii) develops that theme. It is not a question
of: "stop the train, i want to get off." We are all on the
train and life does not stop because we don't like what we see.
Initiation as a description of the process of progressive
learning and illuminating of the human mind is not a singular
thing that can be adopted at choice. It happens to be a
universal process. It is the process of getting the embodied
brain-mind and consciousness to widen out to its universal
parameters. And we don't always like the process. That is true.
But is it solely a question of "liking ?"

I think it is inspiring (to me) to think that interiorly, in my
own higher nature, i have an existence that is close to a
"Jesus," or to a "Buddha," or to a "Krishna," etc... in other
words, to true personages who were able to express through their
embodiment the virtues and qualities of "sons of god" and of
"perfected beings." And i can see by comparison of their words
that they all taught the same general ethical and spiritual
doctrines. In other words all religions turn out to be slight
variants on a single theme. It is the priesthoods that have
engrafted themselves on those doctrines that have created all the
"differences' and whipped up tyranny and opposition to each other
without any real base. They have kept people from investigating
other religions and have erected barriers of "faith" and "blind
belief." That does no good for any one.

Let me also add that as an embodied individual with a mind that
has to use the sensitivity of the brain in my body, I do not have
the experience to do that -- but given the ideals as accounts of
their actions and words, I can appreciate their existence. And i
hope to express in my own small way some of the virtues they
exhibited with such strength that their influence flows down the
centuries to all of us, as an example of the power of the spirit
in actual incarnation.

And it would serve no useful purpose in any case, would it ?
Suffice it to say there are those who are through their own
efforts ahead of us on the ladder of ascent to the recognition of
their unity with the vast all.

See below.

Best wishes,



-----original message-----
from: c--k---
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:45 am
subject: fw: re: memorable quotes


I was reading "letters that helped me."

in one letter from z., it is stated that we are all chelas of one
grade or
another; an analogy he used was of the rank system of the

I'm a seargent and Buddha is an imfamous successful four-star


Dtb	did you mean "infamous" -- then i would say you need to read
more about the Buddha's teachings and perhaps revise your


The "chain of command" would not necessarily mean that the
seargent is always in the
presence of the highest ranks. But, it is possible to meet the
high ranks,
when you've earned the privilege . It works in a spiritual sense
as well as
in the armed forces; only spiritually we earn our way through
our higher self and unshakable confidence in the wisdom of the


Dtb yes one has to earn the "privilege" from the outer point of
view. But interiorly we are also at the same level as the
"general." At no time are asked to abase our right to
independence and our free-will. We are shown how universally the
freedom of truth-acting exists, and we are encouraged to align
our free choices to those ideals. We are also warned of the
inexorable law of karma -- which is wielded by impartial and
universal nature -- for the good of all, and never for our own
personal "good." Nature plays no "favorites." Everyone gets to
play on a level field.


there is the wanna-be chela [boot camp graduates], probationary
[senior airmans--spec 4s for you army-types], and the advanced
chelas [your
technical and chief seargents], who act as teachers [imparting
knowledge and
wisdom] and gurus [gurus are attitude adjusters, the officers].
The chelas
[teachers and gurus alike] on these various tiers of evolution
all interact
and help each other to gain understanding and evolve.

does this analogy make sense to you all? [i am prior military]


Dtb	understood -- but you enrolled, and did so under the limited
conditions of the military set-up.

Our "enrolment" in humanity is not voluntary. We are in it. It
is the result of natures method of education. Starting with the
monad (of no experience) it affords progressively wide
experience in and through the universe -- from atom to animal,
from animal to man, from man to Buddha, from Buddha to a central
spiritual sun -- (guide, mentor and supporter of all levels of
evolution but especially the spiritual over a tremendous range.)
The grades mentioned are not man-made but are supervised solely
by impartial and universal nature (and her wise delegates: the
super-men -- Buddhas and Dhyan Chohans) they range over all
experience, a said, and include as from sub-atoms to those who
are potential humans -- though "humanity" to a wisdom that
transcends our present conceptions. It may take an enormous time
period for them to become individualized minds (such as we now
are) and it will take an immense period of time for us to
transform ourselves into Buddhas. But such is the law.


if one happens to be chosen to receive a distinguished visitor
form the
higher tier of masters, sages and advanced beings, then stand
sharp and and
listen to what message they bring. Most likely it is a message
disseminate throughout the ranks, to keep morale and confidence
where it
should be in spiritual should be the attentive
airman, giving
undivided attention to the officer present.


Dtb	why not look at the situation as though you received a manual
(theosophical literature) that gives insight into the meaning and
structure of the "corps." It gives the curriculum. It indicates
the potentials that can be transformed by self-effort into
actualities by every enlisted person -- given time in which to
make these "perfect." It also makes you aware that there have
been others ahead of you, and this "manual" is evidence of their
study and discoveries.


There are others, though, who, even though they mean well and are
sincere, only wish to get the autograph, enjoy the elation of the
experience of peeking into the higher planes, or
have the opportunity to say "i met the general!!!!", as some sort
validation factor surely plays a part in such motivations.
Whether one has
an opportunity to meet with the higher ranks or not in this
lifetime is
irrelevant; and, to put such a weight on the subject is at best a
point, if we are at all in tune with our aim and purpose of
study. Whether it takes ten years ten minutes or ten seconds to
get those
answers, no one really knows how long it takes a person.


Dtb	to merely boast of a great meeting is useless. To be able to
say "i perceived the actuality of a universal truth in action,"
is a far more important memory. It gives direction and hope to
the struggling student. And it also makes for solidarity to know
we are all in the same "boat."

The only difference between the ordinary application, military or
civilian, business or academic, is we are dealing with the
information that theosophy gives, with all possible aspects of
our lives -- and we can watch (without interfering i hope) the
development of the same patterns in others. You are worried
about quantity and commencement.

You have started where you are, and no doubt you may have "picked
up the thread" where you left it off lives before. The thing to
do now is to organize what you know, what you want to know and a
method for gradually securing a good hold on the information that
is coming your way, or which you are gathering in. Above all do
not be impatient.

The principles are only a few -- maybe about 20 or 30.
Everything else are developments in and from them, as they, being
truth will be found to integrate and to be coherent at all
points. As you study you will find that theosophy supports
itself all the way through by information and logic. It has no
secret gaps. Nor will you be asked to take anything on "faith."
There will be statements made that are out of your range of
present knowledge. The thing to do, as i have, is t take note of
them under query -- later they will be answered.

As an example:


1 Space is everywhere, and cannot be

2. Law is everywhere. It is always honest,
True, fair, universal and impersonal

3. The evolution of all creatures and beings
Starts from the same single spiritual basis. It makes them all
"brothers." even the material of all forms ( atoms, molecules ).
Are immortals and come from the same one source: spirit.

This makes the entire universe a universal brotherhood -- spirit.
And soul are the basis for all things. Evolution and
Self-progress are the methods that lead to "perfection.'


Hermes taught: "the stone becomes a plant. The plant becomes an
Animal, the animal becomes a man ( a thinker), and, a thinker
Becomes a god. Never is anything made less or lowered again."
All progress is forward and upward and eventually we learn and
Know everything.

4. Reincarnation is the process by which all
Beings progress. The forms constantly change. The spirit that
Is behind the forms, and creates them, never dies.

5. Sleep is death. Death is sleep. The
Consciousness always survives.

6. The law of spiritual development is
Through brotherhood.

7. Man's duty is to help all others.


The "positions" which some people seem to have attained that
gives them eminence or authority has no inner significance unless
that eminence is the application of a superior ethical or moral
code upon themselves and in their affairs of dealing with others.
Here is where the virtues come into play: generosity, charity,
teaching, brotherhood, patience, honesty, sincerity, a
willingness to sacrifice one's own time and energy to assist
others ...and so on ... thos have lasting, real and permanent
value -- they become part of one's character. And they do not
die when life is over but are built into the eternal self during
the process of devachan between two lives {have you read on this

I only know that it is the self to either impedes or enables

Dtb	the self (meaning spiritual self only) will never impede
spirituality, and impersonality and universality in
self-determined choice and progress.

But the lower the selfish isolated self will use any means to
keep us from improvement and causing it the pain of having to
alter its nature from selfishness to generosity.

We, the real man or woman can take either position. We can
choose to be noble or we can choose to be isolated in our
selfishness. But once you have read and studied theosophy you
are no longer blind or ignorant and the focus and means of change
are now in your hands. You are forced to choose. You and i who
live in this world are now forced to decide what kind of "path"
we will tread.


"if you think you can, you're right; if you think you cannot,
you're right" i will choose to
think i can!


Dtb	agreed

best to acknowledge these encounters internally. "pray to your
father in
secret", "they who know do not speak; they who speak do not
otherwise, one falls into the same old lower-self trap
[consciously or
unconsciously] of emotional perspective.

That's my perspective [hope it is a useful one!]


Dtb	i think it is. Also i would add it takes a lot of courage
and also a Lot of dogged perseverance.


without further ado; now its my turn to ask a question:

We should dare not bite off more than we can chew in these
spiritual endeavors. Individually,
i am still awaiting first contact with my self, which i can reach
thru concentration and meditation. My thoughts are that i am in
no hurry, and must read for understanding more about successful
meditation. Is it supposed to be this way?


Dtb	no one ought to advise another, since that advice is always
coloured by the nature and thoughts of the advisor. The
principles that can be applied may be laid out, as fully as
possible. Advantages and disadvantages alike.

The recipient ought to review and decide if those can be used,
and added to or modified. (we all do this.)

This is a part of the study and meditative process -- it is
always active, and to be successful it ought to place universal
facts and principles and processes in prominent evidence, so that
their universality and rationale can assist.

It is best to do this in some form of writing -- for future
reference and modification, as one learns and applies the
decisions one arrives at. And then finds they have to improve

No first "decisions" ought to be carved in stone. Always there
should be room for modification as experience is the best of our

Set up a testing range of "virtues" oppose them with the
corresponding "vices" this gives the mind which is always
neutral and is also placed "in between" to make free decisions.
Incidentally this arrangement is always made by "we" the
impartial, spiritual person acting on the highest aspect of the
embodied self. It is a resolute attempt to try to understand the
lower self and then to control and direct it constructively.
Here is where the greatest struggle will be encountered.


is it possible my thoughts are unconsciously avoidance or
lethargy rather
than new found-patience in starting out? Will we ever know
enough to begin?


Dtb	that is a quality you will have to determine for yourself.
We all have those same kinds of impediments, but our particular
mix is the result of our past -- it is karma, now showing up for
help or delay. We are the one who has to "overcome." "avoidance
and lethargy are not virtues. But patience and caution and a
curbing of impetuosity are of the virtuous side.

We always know enough for whatever our present problems are. We
may not have yet identified them and that is why i suggest making
up a list of virtues so that the opposition to "vice" and
personal selfishness, becomes clearer.

There is a most valuable statement for the student to cherish:
"and that power which the disciple shall covet is that which will
make him appear as nothing in the eye of men."

If you want a list of virtues go to book 8 in the LIGHT OF ASIA
(Arnold) also the VOICE OF THE SILENCE lists them as "Paramitas"
pp. 52-3. The sermon on the mount contains them. So does the
BHAGAVAD GITA (Krishna) -- which incidentally, contains a
marvelous account of the "fight" between virtue and vice .
Krishna the teacher explains to Arjuna the pupil step by step the
method of securing full spiritual command over his own lower
nature. The scene is a battlefield, and might commend itself to
you, and your experience.

As to the time -- that is of no real consequence. If we are
immortals we have been a very long time coming to this place of
consideration. We have received the gift of the mind. We can
think over a whole range of ideas. It becomes our duty,
apparently to decide what it is right for us to do in terms of
education, and self-choice. We alone accelerate or delay our own


you all are chelas, teachers, gurus; acknowledged or not, the
theosophists of
the world today go out of their way to give all their knowledge.


Dtb	hope so	best wishes, fellow pilgrim.




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