Theos-Talk Archives (December 2001 Message tt00065)

December 5, 2001

Re: Karma, collective, individual, & unmerited suffering, etc…

Dear G M:

First let me make sure you understand that what I will be saying is the
result of my one study and the responsibility is my own. I try to place the
original teachings of Theosophy before us all -- as these are the most
direct and purest form that the Masters desired us to know about. They in
many cases co-authored (their certificate is available published in PATH
Magazine, Vol. 8, p. 1 ) most of what H P B wrote and published.

We all know in our “Conscience” the difference between “good” and “evil.”

Theosophy confirms that is the voluntary choice that we make any time when
we decide to think, feel, speak or act, is the point at which we created,
and create, for ourselves “good or bad” effects for our future. We create
Karma for the future all the time. The moral intent -- motive -- does this.
It therefore behooves us to always employ the purest and most impersonally
universal reasons for our actions.

Regardless of how people define “God” or “God’s Laws,” there are common
sense ways of acting and behaving when we are alone and when we are in
public, but Theosophy makes no distinction between the two. Each religion
like to make its adherents believe they have access to the “only true God.”
But is that so? It is for this reason that Theosophy encourages us to make
a comparative study of several religions -- in order to demonstrate to
ourselves the claim Theosophy makes as to their similarity when traced to
the ROOT TEACHINGS from which they are derived.

VIRTUE, briefly is living and behaving in all ways in accord with Nature’s
God’s) Laws. It is a discipline we impose on ourselves, as only we know for
sure what are motives are or were.

VICE is the breaking of those Laws. The Voice of Conscience always warns
us when we are about to do something evil or wrong. The Voice of Conscience
comes direct from BUDDHI inherent in our own HIGHER NATURE. it is part of
the immortal and divine MONAD at the core of our own being. Fortunate are
we, if we listen to and obey it.

We humans, with our independent and free Minds, are endowed with the faculty
of seeing these two opposites. The whole process of transforming ourselves
from independent ”minds” into “Buddhas” starts in our present condition.

On the whole, organized religions tend to limit and bind our power of
independent thought. With threats and promises they try to cajole us into
accepting their version of God, his Laws, and the Rewards which following
their Religion will confer. Are these claims true and correct asks
Theosophy ?

Can the organized religions expose their motives openly to all ? Theosophy
does not seek for adherents, nor does it organize any church. It asks of
those who approach it the widest, clearest and most attentive activity that
any individual mind is able to make -- we are, as theosofers, all seekers
for TRUTH.

Are we going to make the effort to control and direct our Lower Nature ?
This is, here and now, one of the greatest “tests” we will ever face. We
have individually merited this, and to go forward is one of the hardest
efforts we will have to make. We will have to decide if Theosophy is
reasonable, if we can learn its theories and doctrines, and independently
check them for accuracy. Then, with that done, we will have to decide
whether to use and apply them from moment to moment, for the rest of our
life and for lives to come. It is no easy, or snap of the finger, type
judgment. Theosophy expects no one to enter its halls with their eyes shut,
or anything left unsaid, as to the future trials of discipleship.

Theosophical theory and metaphysics demonstrates (intellectually and
logically ) how this is so.

Theosophical theory, reduced to practice, is, in a simple but inclusive way,
designated UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD. There are no strangers to guard against.
There is no expectation of unjust or unmerited harm coming unbidden in our
direction. But, we will meet as effects, the result of all our past Karma.
Are we ready for that ? The personality is bound to be strained and
suffer -- but the divine INDIVIDUAL in every one of us, will march forward.
It is imperative that this be known -- with a clear understanding of the
risks we take. All this is implicit in the teachings of Theosophy as
ORIGINALLY given by H P B and the Masters.

If one desires to go into the method of proving and demonstrating this, then
the whole of Theosophical logic and theory needs to be investigated. We are
invited to do this. Further we are warned against taking anything on “BLIND
FAITH.”

Interiorly, in our highest aspect WE ARE ALL DIVINE MONADIC BEINGS. This
Divinity of SPIRIT / MATTER / MIND is not remote. Those “high beings” the
Masters of Wisdom, are not remote, but they live and have their being on the
same plane as the one on which our own divine essence lives. We are always
in contact with Them spiritually, but the incarnated mind (a reflection)
that is here and now awake and active in us, is unaware of this, and will
remain so until such time as it does not make spiritual living its normal
life. Difficult, almost mystic to convey, yet an actual fact. [ see
TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE, pp. 66 - 76; BLAVATSKY: Collected
Works (TPH) vol. 10, pp 253 -66 ]

As an example: Church doctrines and ritual makes Jesus appear to us as a
remote, and almost impossible IDEAL -- the SON OF GOD. Whereas the
Theosophical attitude says He is IN US. We are the potential Jesus. We are
all “SONS OF GOD.” [ Incidentally Jesus at one point turned to his
disciples and said: “Know ye not ye are Gods ?” [ John : 10 - 34-5 ] One
of the attributes of the Godhead is OMNIPRESENCE -- That is: “Presence in
everything, and in everyone.” Is this to be denied ?

We can make it so, an actual living presence in us, if we will TO LIVE
spiritually in daily life, here and now, as Jesus is reputed to have lived.
To the Lower Selfish Self of the average man, this has little appeal, as
there seems to be no selfish pleasures (as a prospect) available in such a
condition. But the average man has not given himself the opportunity of
meditating on these ideas and thinking them through. There is no future for
him beyond the closure we call the death of the body -- but, Theosophy does
speak of the Immortal spiritual Man who is the eternal Pilgrim. What are
its needs, wants, and aspirations ? How can the Personal man attach himself
to those, so as to secure immortality ?

Let me put a few notes in the body of your text below.

Best wishes,

Dal

==========================



-----Original Message-----
From: G----s M--k
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:35 AM
To:
Subject: WHERE IS PRACTICAL THEOSOPHY TO BE FOUND ?

--------------------------------------------

In a message dated 12/2/01 6:36:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dalval14@earthlink.net writes:

Dallas Wrote:


The real question is : Why don't we manifest it in our daily
lives ? Why do we think we can get it from outside.

Dallas I completly agree with you, one does need to manifest in ones daily
lives.

If by meaning "outside" you are refering to prayers, rituals, invocations
and the practicing of some sort of way of life.....then I would say that by
doing so it draws oneself closer to his "Higher Spirtual Body" (the part
which does not die) and if the system RAISE you into the etheric BODY and
REALMS, (not astral) but spiritual planes or heavens, it is perfecly natural
and even one step furter...A law of NATURE.

=============

DTB One is always enveloped in all the “bodies (sheaths, vestures) --
the nature of our embodied mind (Kama-Manas -- see the KEY TO THEOSOPHY
(HPB) for accurate definitions) is dual. There is the selfish and isolated
Kama-manas -- bound by passion and desire. Then in the same Kama Manas
there is a higher aspect which aspires to Wisdom, to Buddhi, to
universality, impersonality, generosity, justice -- all the noble virtues
and aspirations. It in this Kama-Manas that the duality is at constant
war -- within itself. It is a struggle to adopt impersonal virtues or to
forever be tortured by vices that breed always doubt and uncertainty. The
lowest aspect of Kama-Manas is our present Personality and it is time
limited. It dies. It does NOT REINCARNATE for the component elements of
its nature -- the “life-atoms, the “skandhas” -- who are also imperishable
Monads of LESSER EXPERIENCE -- are dispersed back into nature at the time of
physical death, and later at the 2nd death when the astral corpse is formed
on the plane of the Kama-rupa. Only the highest aspect of the Kama-manas
embodying the memories of its aspirations and noble impulses words, and
deeds when last alive are carried by the divine SELF into Devachan and there
they are reviewed, meditated on, and built into the permanent fabric of the
immortal EGO ( ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS) [ see KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) or OCEAN OF
THEOSOPHY for details.

===============================

M G
My Question then is: The Masters of Widom teach that having bad karma is a
very "specific" kind of unfortunate situation to find ourselves in. In
this and previous
lifetimes, we performed specific actions with our four lower bodies
(etheric, astral, mental and physical) that caused specific pain to other
specific lifestreams in one way or another.

=======================================

DTB The production of “bad Karma” is any act, thought or feeling that
is selfish, and harms or abridges another’s freedom. In other words bad
karma is the result of our deliberately creating a situation that harms or
gives pain to another. The laws of Nature are immutable.

The pain we gave, will inevitably return to us. The reason is that when we
gave pain, we distorted the component Monads (of lesser experience) of our
own lower quaternary (physical,. astral, pranic, and kamic) [ Not the
classification that you use --- which was developed by students AFTER the
death of H P B ]

These are the “skandhas” (Monadic lives of lesser experience) and they,
after dispersal eventually return to us, under Karma, and bring at that time
the amount of distortion which we had imposed on them originally in our
selfishness.

Theosophical doctrine and theory proceeds to describe the process of
adjustment in these terms, as I read them: [ see: H P B Article
TRANSMIGRATION OF LIFE ATOMS, H P B Articles Vol. II p. 249; BLAVATSKY:
Collected Works (TPH), Vol. 5, p. 110] Accordingly, we, being forced to use
them, find that our views are distorted with the same force we imposed on
them.

Thus we learn that the evil we did rebounds, and returns to and on us. Of
course if the rebound is divided by a death of the personal man and a fresh
rebirth, it is difficult to trace the CAUSE. We are subject to the EFFECT.
But we have to remember that “Eternal Justice rules the world. With mighty
sweep of never-erring action, it brings to mortals lives of weal or woe --
the Karmic progeny of all our former thoughts and deeds.” [ Voice of the
Silence ] By the way, this little book is one of the best guides for use in
meditation, and on the Path of the disciple.

We are expected to realize that nature will NEVER unjustly impose suffering
on us which we cannot in some way trace, and gain understanding from. [ see
on “apparent injustices: S D II pp. 303-4; Key, pp. 35, 160-2 ] It is
this occult fact that has caused the rituals and ceremonies of:
“confession,” “remorse,” and “penitence.” But in such cases, an active
attempt to succor the victims we made, or to redress the ill we imposed, is
not demanded or attempted. It is the equity of Nature than demands we make
full and equal restitution to those whom we had made our victims. Thus only
can the “accounts” of Nature be balanced by us.

=====================================

M G
We incurred karmic obligations with other specific lifestreams ("personal
karma"), with specific nations ("national karma"), with specific cultures
("race karma") and even with entire specific planets ("planetary karma") --
all as a result of foolish things we've done to impose pain on other
beings, while we ignorantly (or not-so-ignorantly) went about breaking
God's Laws.

================================

DTB Karma as you say is of several kinds.

“Planetary Karma” is not a designation that H P B gave -- but as we areall
one mass of humanity -- a “life-wave” of MINDS, it may represent our
Earth-Karma, as we remain associated with this EARTH for as long as we have
responsibilities here.

We do NOT go wandering aimlessly, LIKE TOURISTS, around the stars and
planets of this or other systems, original Theosophy teaches. Karma fixes
us to the place and area with which we have affinity and unfinished business
to finalize. This is only justice.

Since Theosophy does not recognize a PERSONAL GOD, but does recognize the
DIVINITY inherent in the whole of NATURE, I think, for myself, it is better
to designate it as the LAWS OF NATURE -- it impersonalizes and universalizes
the concept. It also gives a broader scope to the fact that no one religion
is superior to any other. All are derived at their root from THEOSOPHY the
Perennial Philosophy -- the ETERNAL DOCTRINE -- the HISTORY OF THE
UNIVERSE.

========================================

M G
The Masters also teach that many of us in embodiment on Earth
today, previously were embodied on other planets (Mercury, Venus, and
others).

==========================================

DTB The Original teachings of THEOSOPHY (per H.P.Blavatsky and the
Masters’ own writings) do NOT teach this. This kind of change (as I have
seen in what has been called “Theosophical Literature” was brought about by
students AFTER H P B’s death. If however you can find me a statement by
H.P.Blavatsky or the Masters, that says what you report, I would be very
glad to see it -- and will stand corrected.

=======================================

M G
Therefore, it is not out of the question that many of us on
Earth today ALSO still have some bad karma causing us problems in our lives
today, which originated on those "other planets" -- or even beyond
throughout the Cosmos.

====================================

DTB Your reasoning would be correct if the premises exist. Could the
basis be checked please. Did either H P B or the MASTERS actually say
this -- that we traveled around the Cosmos and other Planets ? What would
be the reason for that activity ?

========================================

M G
The question therefore needs to be answered: "How can we
'make-things-right' (balance our karma) with all of these lifestreams
scattered throughout the Cosmos?" The Cosmos, after all, is a mighty BIG
place! Should not there be a systematical way to do so?

======================================

DTB You are right to ask this question. But let’s first clear up asto
whether this statement is correct. As I understand it, we are bound up with
the “life-wave” of Egos that are, as Monads, a part of this Earth’s
individual development and collective KARMA. If there are no specific
karmic attachments to other “planets” why should we have been there, and
left trails of unfinished business as we wander around ? Is this
“play-Theosophy” or is it “serious stuff” we are studying and investigating
?


Best wishes,

Dallas


CUT


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