Theos-Talk Archives (December 2001 Message tt00044)

December 3, 2001

Re: Defining a "Principle"

Dear Jerry:

As I understand it, a "principle" is a distinct basis and
function, we are all studying Theosophy as H P B put it forward
on behalf of the Masters and trying to understand why and how
they adopted this particular method. [ see KEY TO THEOSOPHY
(HPB) pp 90-3, 181, 183; S D I 145-151, 166-170, 325
on...341 ]

I am using quotations from Theosophical Texts so you can follow
where I secured my information.

I can see how they interrelate when any action is originated by
our choice or will - they move together and have sympathetic
vibratory rates (if that's the way to express it). [ S D I
181 ]

But in saying this I also keep in mind that each "Principle" is
of necessity, in all the others.
[ If we have 7 principles then the degree of sharing might be
expressed as 7 x 7 = 49 tones.] No principle is totally isolated
from the others, but has a part in them. [ S D I 290-1, 520-1,
II 57, 362, 611 ]

How else to explain the matter of the transfer of karmic
responsibility for our choices or determining how the whole mass
of manifested mater interacts. We have here the old paradox of
the individual vs. the mass. Both have equal rights but those
are linked only by sincerity and honesty.
[Key, pp. 14-5, 24-5]

ATMA is a word chosen to indicate the highest and best regulated
condition -- or that which is pure because it acts justly [ KEY
TO THEOSOPHY, PP 62, 66-7 ] -- and that would demand several
things: laws that are uniform and fair, and the best method of
securing an individual advance commensurate with harmony -- a
harmony that is a universal VIBRATION of all levels and kind of
materials -- all being independent and immortal MONADS.

But those very same Monads are also spiritual and intellectual
and psychic and astral as well as physical entities -- how to
disentangle the aspects and levels of active aspects?

No amount of analysis can obviate the fact of the existence of
the coherent whole of any one of us. Nor can it in any way
account for our "levels of intelligence and consciousness" except
by the process of self-education -- in a "School" where the
individual Monad has to choose its own life-work. [ KEY TO
THEOSOPHY (HPB) pp. 100, 110-1, 118-122, 134-6 ]

In other words where does UNITY cease and become DIVERSITY. What
determines the diversification and the rules and procedures that
restore disturbance to regularity? [ Key, pp. 62, 65, 83, 103
155, 168-9 ] They both appear to exist in coaduntion with each
other, but not necessarily in the same conubstantiality or on the
same plane.

These have to be both separated and synthesized simultaneously.
One is entitative and the other is procedural. If we integrate
entity and process we are faced with the justification of
morality. And by morality the rights of individuals as parts of
a whole that has UNITY as basis is implied.
[Key, pp. 171-2, 175-6] Apparently it takes the Mind-principle
to be able to do this.

BUDDHI is that aspect of substance which is purified and able to
serve as a vehicle for the SPIRIT. The concept of the Gayatri
verse (which I published about a month ago) explains this.

This resolves the question of responsibility. And that implies
the practice of brotherhood as a basis for continued existence.
[Key, pp. 184, 215-6, 236, 240-1]

Let me out some additional notes in the body of your text below:

best wishes,

Dal

---------------------------------------

But first, let me offer these:


"...the teaching about the Septenary constitution of the sidereal
bodies and of the macrocosm--from which the septenary division of
the microcosm, or Man--has until now been among the most
esoteric. In olden times if used to be divulged only at the
Initiation and along with the most sacred figures of the
cycles...the key to their teaching is furnished by
Atma-Vidya...for outside of metaphysics no occult philosophy, no
esotericism is possible." SD I 168-9


"...the number seven, as well as the doctrine of the septenary
constitution of man, was pre-eminent in all the secret systems.
It plays as important a part in Western Kabala as in Eastern
Occultism." SD I 241

"The universe evolves from the unknown, into which no man or
mind, however high, can inquire, on seven planes or in seven ways
or methods in all worlds, and this seven-fold differentiation
causes all the worlds of the universe and the beings thereon to
have a septenary constitution...the little worlds and the great
are copies of the whole, and the minutest insect as well as the
most highly developed being are replicas in little or in great of
the vast inclusive original.

The divisions of the sevenfold universe may be laid down roughly
as:
The Absolute, [or Space--that which ever is and in which all
manifestation must take place...we can do no more than say It Is.
None of the great teachers of the School ascribe qualities to the
Absolute although all qualities exist in It.] Spirit, Mind,
Matter, Will, Akasa or AEther, [ Akasa is used in place of AEther
because English...has no word to properly designate that tenuous
state of matter], and Life.

Our knowledge begins with differentiation, and all manifested
objects, beings, or powers are only differentiations of the Great
Unknown. The most that can be said is that the Absolute
periodically differentiates itself, and periodically withdraws
the differentiation into itself.

The first differentiation--speaking metaphorically as to time--is
Spirit, with which appears Matter and Mind. Akasa is produced
from Matter and Spirit. Will is the force of spirit in action
and Life is a resultant of the action of Akasa moved by spirit,
upon Matter.

But the Matter here spoken of is not that which is vulgarly known
as such. It is the real Matter which is always invisible, and
has sometimes been called Primordial Matter...Mulaprakriti ...we
see or perceive only the phenomena but not the essential nature,
body or being of matter.

Mind is the intelligent part of the Cosmos, and in the collection
of seven differentiations above roughly sketched.

This plan was brought over from a prior period of manifestation
which added to its ever increasing perfectness, and no limit can
be set to its evolutionary possibilities in perfectness. Because
there was never any beginning to the periodical manifestations of
the Absolute, there will never be any end, but forever the going
forth and withdrawing into the Unknown will go on." ` Ocean,
pp. 14-15


"Enquirer. But who is it that creates each time the Universe?

Theosophist. No one creates it. Science would call the
process evolution...we, Occultists and Theosophists, see in it
the only universal and eternal reality casting a periodical
reflection of itself on the infinite Spatial depths. This
reflection which you regard as the objective material universe,
we consider as a temporary illusion and nothing else. That alone
which is eternal is real...the universe passes out of its
homogeneous subjectivity on to the first pane of manifestation,
of which planes there are seven, we are taught. With each plane
it becomes more dense and material until it reaches this, our
plane...our Solar system (like every other such system in the
millions of others in Cosmos) and even our Earth, has its own
programme of manifestations differing from the respective
programmes of all others." Key to Theosophy pp. 84-5



==============================================
Table from Secret Doctrine Vol. II, p. 596

Correspondence of the 7 Cosmic and 7 Human "principles."

================================================================
Human aspects or Cosmic aspects or
Principles Principles
================================================================
[ Out of manifestation ]

Triple aspect of the Deity

[ See S D I 200 ]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[ In manifestation ]

1 Universal Spirit (Atma) The Unmanifested
Logos

2. Spiritual Soul (Buddhi) Universal (latent)
Ideation

see F note p. 597)

3. Human Soul, Mind (Manas) Universal (or Cosmic)
active Intelligence

Spirit of the Earth


4. Animal Soul (Kama-Rupa) Cosmic Chaotic energy

5. Astral Body (Linga-Sarira) Astral Ideation,
reflecting terrestrial things.

6. Life Essence (Prana) Life Essence or
Energy

7. Body (Sthula Sarira) The Earth.

[ from: SD II 596]



SEVENFOLD MAN


"We find...two distinct beings in man; the spiritual and the
physical, the man who thinks, and the man who records as much of
these thoughts as he is able to assimilate.

Therefore we divide him into two distinct natures: the upper or
the spiritual being, composed of three "principles" or aspects;
and the lower or the physical quaternary, composed of four--in
all seven." Key, p. 90


S D I 157 (Please see actual table there)

References:
CLASSIFICATION OF PRINCIPLES - HPB Theosophist, April
1887
RECLASSIFICATION OF PRINCIPLES Theosophist, August 1887
(HPB Articles Vol. II p 233-248)
ISIS U. & THE THEOSOPHIST ON REINCARNATION Th'st. Aug.
1882
(HPB Articles Vol. I p 491 see table on
p. 494)
THEOSOPHICAL THEORIES OF THE MICROCOSM --W. Q. Judge
Theosophist, August 1887 (WQJ Art. Vol.
II p. 346)
Tables in Secret Doctrine: Vol II pp 593, 596, 632-3.


"...Atma-Bodha or "Knowledge of Soul," [a treatise by
Shankaracharya]...speaks distinctly of seven principles in man
(see verse 14). They are called therein the five sheaths
(Panchakosha) in which is enclosed the divine monad--the Atman
and Buddhi, the seventh and sixth principles, or the individual
soul when made distinct...from the supreme soul--Parabrahman.
The first sheath, called Ananda-maya--the sheath of "supreme
bliss"--is the Manas of fifth principle of the Occultists, when
united with Buddhi; the second sheath is Vijnana-maya Kosha, the
case or envelope of "self-delusion," the Manas when self-deluded
into the belief of the personal "I" or Ego, with its vehicle.
The third is Mano-maya sheath, composed of illusionary "mind"
associated with the organs of action and will, is the Kama Rupa
and the Linga Sharira combined, producing an illusive "I" or
Mayavi Rupa. The fourth sheath is called Prana-maya, illusionary
"life," our second life principle or Jiva, wherein resides life,
the "breathing" sheath. The fifth Kosha is called Anna-maya, or
the sheath supported by food--our gross material body. All these
sheaths produce other smaller sheaths, or six attributes or
qualities each, the seventh being always the root-sheath; and the
Atman or spirit passing through all these subtle ethereal bodies
like a thread, is called the "thread-soul" or Sutratman." - HPB
Five Years of Theosophy p. 126


"As the prime declaration of theosophy is that all these
so-called bodies and appearances are for the purpose of enabling
the ONE--the Atma--to fully comprehend nature and "bring about
the aim of the soul," why not denominate all that it uses for
that purpose vehicles?...Or if greater clearness is desired, let
us say that there is one principle which acts through six
vehicles. The scheme will then stand thus:

Atma (spirit), one principle, indivisible

Is vehicles are

Buddhi . . . Spiritual Soul
Manas . . . Human Soul
Kama Rupa . . Animal Soul
Linga Sarira . . Astral Body
Prana or Jiva . . Vitality
Rupa . . . The Body "

WQJ Articles I 299


SD I pp. 242-5 gives the following analysis of seven-fold man:

1. THE UPPER TRIAD

1. Atma - pure
- Neschamah
2. Buddhi - Spiritual
- Ruach
3. Manas - Mind, Plastic
- Nephesch

2. THE LOWER QUATERNARY

4. Kama -
Passion & Animal Desire
5. Prana - Life -
Mikael, Sun Principle
6. Linga Sarira -
Astral Body - Image of Man
7. Sthula Sarira
Physical Body -

[Explanatory footnote: "Nephesh is the breath of (animal)
life...Without Manas, "the reasoning Soul," or mind, Atma-Buddhi
are irrational on this plane and cannot act. It is Buddhi which
is the plastic mediator, not Manas, "the intelligent medium
between the upper Triad and the lower Quaternary."...]
S D I 241-2


"[There is a dual set of "principles": the spiritual, or those
which belong to the imperishable Ego; and the material, or those
principles which make up the ever-changing bodies or the series
of personalities of that Ego.

Let us fix permanent names to those, and say that:--

1. Atma, the "Higher Self," is neither your Spirit nor mine,
but like sunlight shines on all. It is the universally diffused
"divine principle," and is inseparable from its one and absolute
Meta-Spirit, as the sunbeam is inseparable from sunlight.

2. Buddhi (the spiritual soul) is only its vehicle. Neither
each separately, nor the two collectively, are of any more use to
the body of man, than sunlight and its beams are for a mass of
granite buried in the earth, unless the divine Duad is
assimilated by, and reflected in, some consciousness. Neither
Atma nor Buddhi are ever reached by Karma, because the former is
the highest aspect of Karma, its universal working agent of
ITSELF in one aspect, and the other is unconscious on this plane.
This consciousness or mind is

3. Manas,(*) the derivation or product in a reflected form
of Ahamkara, "the conception of "I," or Ego-ship, and Taijasi
(the radiant). This is the real Individuality or the divine man.
It is this Ego which--having originally incarnated in the
senseless human form animated by, but unconscious (since it had
no consciousness) of, the presence in itself of the dual
monad--made of that human-like form a real man. It is that Ego,
that "Causal Body," which overshadows every personality Karma
forces it to incarnate into; and this Ego which is held
responsible for all the sins committed through, and in, every new
body or personality--the evanescent masks which hide the true
Individual through the long series of rebirths.

(*) Mahat or the "Universal Mind" is the source of Manas.
The latter is Mahat, i.e., mind, in man. Manas is also called
Kshetrajna, "embodied spirit," because it is...the Manasa-putra,
or "Sons of the Universal Mind," who created, or rather produced,
the thinking man, "manu" by incarnating in the third Race mankind
[Lemurian] in our Round. It is Manasa, therefore, which is
the real incarnating and permanent Spiritual Ego, the
Individuality, and our various and numberless personalities only
its external masks." Key to Theosophy, pp. 135-6


=====================

Best Wishes,

Dallas

==================================

-----Original Message-----
From: G----d S----r
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 6:38 AM
To:
Subject: Principles - to Dal

---------------------------------------------------------
<<Dear Jerry:
You are a Monad and so am I as I understand it -- at the
root-base of our being,>>

OK

<<<But we both know that we are also a composite of many
different things.>>

OK

<<So in one way we are a unit ATMA
But to manifest the ATMA needs many vehicles or sheaths. That's
all i am trying to say.
BUDDHI is the closest of them. It is said to be pure primordial
matter, and as such can only offer ATMA its purity as a
reflection base, so to say. Thereafter (?) comes the MIND --
MANAS, and so on down the line.

Compris?

Dal>>>

Dallas, I am not sure what you mean here. I view the principles
as general principles, not as things. buddhi is not primordial
matter - which is prakriti - but rather the general principle of
form. Here is how I see it:
JERRY'S CLASSIFICATION DTB'S
UNDERSTANDING

atma - the principle of subjectivity UNIVERSALITY AND
PERFECTION
buddhi - the principle of objectivity PURIFIED,
DIVINE MATTER
manas - the principle of conscious mentation THOUGHT,
PLANNING, MIND, LAW
kama - the principle of desire
UNREGULATED, CHAOTIC ATTRACTION OR

REPULSION.

Thus I have a mind and you have a mind, both of which are
individual manifestations of the general principle of manas. etc
When you or I die, our minds will die too, but manas will keep on
going. Principles are not born, nor do they die. But over time,
they do evolve and change.

==================================


DTB Manas - mind is split into two aspects ethically.

1, There is the DESIRE-MIND (Kama-Manas) which is selfish
and careless of anything but itself -- and is often unethical in
its promptings and designs -- says theosophy.

2. Then, 2nd, there is the SPIRITUAL MIND (Buddhi-Manas)
this is unselfish and universal. It cares for all its decisions
as a member of a whole, and gives to each the consideration that
it might desire for itself. It is therefore tempered by
universality, impersonality, reasonableness, and sincere honesty
of purpose.

At death the "lower mind" aggregates with the lower 4 principles
and forms the Kama-rupa, the body of desire (minus the physical)
which has been left to disintegrate on the physical plane. The
Kama-rupa, after the separation of the divine, altruistic and
noble memories and aspirations (which form the Devachanic body)
undergoes what has been called a Second Death. It is abandoned
in the astral plane where, devoid of the animating SPIRIT-SOUL,
it disintegrates.

This is what Theosophy teaches, as far as I am able to see..

==================================


Is this different from your own view?

YES - AS ABOVE



Jerry S.