Theos-Talk Archives (September 2001 Message tt00018)

Monday, September 03, 2001

Dear Michael:

I am familiar with some of Hubbard's writings, or have read them.
I found them very "materialistic." In the way they limited
themselves (as most Sci-Fi does) to the physical and personal
existence.

Theosophy goes much further and asks for the cause of the
physical. Then we get into the astral, etc... Karma,
reincarnation Soul immortality etc ...

Pain and trauma either physical or psychic will involve the
mind/soul where we are most sensitive and hence most apprehensive
of a future yet to come (if ever). I think it is one of the old
Sages who said "Beware of anticipating pain yet to come." If we
don't know KARMA we also wont be able to know how and when it
strikes. But something in us is aware of that and warns. Why?

I am confused by the use of the phrase" etheric plane" since I
don't find H P B using that as a division of the principal 7 in
the KEY TO THEOSOPHY. Was it Leadbeater who invented that? And
if so why ? As to how it might impress us when in a plane or
state of "unconsciousness" to the brain-mind I have no idea. But
if we take one statement made by Theosophy as correct: namely,
the one that states the descending Monadic (God-like)
Consciousness meets the ascending Animal Intelligence and
Instinct in the Human being, we might secure an answer.

Man's condition in terms of sensitivity and self-education in
regard to universal laws and Karma, might make of him (us) a
crucible where the two types of consciousness meet and mingle.
One might say that this is the "field of Kurukshetra (B. Gita)"
where the pupil meets the Teacher at a battle front and surveys
the armies of the contestants -- the personal and the impersonal
and Wise.

Any time we have suffering, pain, apprehension, etc... we are
focusing ourselves in the personal. Is it possibly because we
know we chose wrongly?

If a detached survey (unemotional) of the cognitions of the
nervous system is attempted, I think we are really saying:

"What underlies the detectable movements of that nervous system?

What causes "cognition?"

Who or what in us is such an "observer" capable of being
emotionally detached? How are ?emotions" to be classified? What
are they for?

How can they be made passive and actually removed or debarred
from entering such a search?

To me the "engrams" appear to be mainly associated with the
passional and desire nature (the Kamic).

What do you think?

Best wishes,

Dallas

================
-----Original Message-----
From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:10 AM
To: study@blavatsky.net
Subject: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination
of "engrams."

Thanks for your views, Dallas. These are views of which I am
familiar and am
in agreement with.

In view of the Engram; it is not owned by Scientology any more
than the
Great White Brotherhood is owned by any earthly group. These are
axiomatic
truths which are available to all. Theosophy is a great system
and I am in
alignment with it's views on benevolence and love as well as
wisdom. Of
course true test is to show these characteristics to those who
shake our
views.

Anyway, it seems that the extremely painful periods such as
family deaths or
even our own past deaths in the physical universe and other forms
of extreme
trauma and among the very reasons why humans can not express the
benevalance
and love that they are capable of expressing. Painful emotion is
a lower
level manifestation of engramatic affects as I understand them.
I know of
very few systems which go into any detail about this. This is
partially
because the expreiences are so severe that they recirded during
periods of
unconsciousness. Some migh call this he "etheric plane" between
the causal
plane and the the higher self !!!

While I am NOT giving a plugto Hbbards organization, there are 3
books of
his that I think are of great importance to any sincere seeker.
Dianetics,
The Science of Survival and Scientology A History of Man.
Unfortunately many will not take the time to understand the
truths ( and of
course the BS too) associated with these very unique books due to
emotional
attachments relating to dislike the author or his subsequent
organization.
That would be like not studying calculus because you do not like
Newton or
Liebnitz, the co- founders of these important axiomatic truths.

In the spirit of Theosophy, I suggest that the unemotional study
of
cognition may start with the nervious system but trancend to the
highest
levels of approaching the level of the sheaths surrounding the
soul. The
intracies of the engram are quite profound and may have much to
do with our
inabilities to understand higher realities !

Perhaps I am going off topic though.

Just a thought.

have a great holiday,
Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: <study@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 5:12 AM
Subject: [bn-study] WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of
"engrams."


>
>
> ---
>
> Monday, September 03, 2001
>
>
> Dear Michael:
>
> As far as I know the Neuro-cognitive relates to our physical
body
> and is quite limited by it. It is only a part of the process
> whereby the INNER MAN cognizes change, data, and seeks to make
a
> relation to a system out of disparate information.
>
> All organization starts with stability of some kind,
> mathematical, physical, chemical, biological, but when one
comes
> to the mind everything seems to become confused. What then
would
> theosophy offer?
>
> 1. there is a THINKER
>
> 2. there is a subject or an object that can be selected to be
> thought about.
>
> 3. There is the process of comparison in search of an organized
> system from which receives or perceives data and change.
>
> 4. there is an attempt to organize this input, in search of
some
> law that already exists and either originates it or is impacted
> by it. This is an area for research.
>
> 5. Finally comes the query : All this registering of data, and
> the collection of evidence evidently has some use. What is the
> use to be considered as? Is it useful, constructive,
impersonal,
> hostile, and what is its relation to my living and the living
of
> others? Is there a repository or a fund in existence to which
we
> can relate our present experiences?
>
> You use the word "engram" which apparently is a concept or a
> force that is antagonistic -- but, antagonistic to what or to
> whom? I have so far only encountered its use with friends who
> are connected in some way with the philosophy of Scientology.
>
> You employ the general concept of PAIN and SUFFERING, DEATH,
> etc... Theosophically these relate more to emotional modes
> rather than to mental and philosophical ones.
>
> In Theosophy, as I understand this, these are correctives and
not
> punitives, nor are they fortuitous. They are the return to us
of
> forces we employed earlier when we chose selfishly to hurt
> others. Karma is created by selfishness and results in
suffering
> to our personality, for the reason that the elementary lives
> which make up our personality and our physical bodies, are
> tortured by us, and when they return they bring with them the
> quality and force of the torture we originally affixed to them
so
> as to wound another being. You will find that H P B wrote
about
> this in her article "TRANSMIGRATION OF LIFE ATOMS"
[THEOSOPHIST
> Vol. 4, p. 286 ; BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. 5, p.
> 110; UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS, H P B Articles, Vol. 2,
> p.249 ]
>
> In Theosophy the Mind is considered to be the superior of the
> two. Mind rules Emotion through, first, an understanding of
the
> nature of the problem, and then, second, makes for itself a
> determination and employs the power of the SELF-WILL. But this
> might be disputed.
>
> Man (as a Living Mind -- in which there is focused the
potential
> of every force of the Universe) is considered at all times to
be
> free and independent. Hence
> his choices from moment to moment, while "influenced," are yet
> still his own, and free.
>
> The power of the individual mind is not to be limited by either
> preconception or prejudice, but ought to be carefully examined
> under the condition of careful introspection analogous to
> meditation.
>
> There rises the question: Who or what EXAMINES the (our) Mind?
> Who (or what) directs it? Who makes the selection of the
> subjects for examination and consideration? And, what is their
> ultimate objective?
>
> I do not have a full grasp of their (Scientology) philosophy,
so
> that it can be compared by me, with the "philosophy of the
> wholeness" of the Universe, and man's relation to it, as a
> reincarnating being. Man is considered to be one who is
learning
> how to accommodate his
> transitory mortality to an end objective that is universal in
> scope, and which will ultimately make him a true immortal with
a
> vision scope and a wisdom that encompasses the Universe we live
> in. To do this harmlessly, the highest ideals as "altruism"
has
> to be practised all the time voluntarily so that no shred of
> selfish personality will serve as a barrier to this attainment.
>
> As I understand it one has to practice UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD
all
> the time if the Wisdom and benevolence of Nature (Universe) is
to
> be entrusted to him. This may appear an impossible dream if
one
> has adopted the idea that we as PERSONALITIES are to survive as
> long as possible and to defend our local territories. This
> concept runs directly opposite to that.
>
> Theosophy considers (let me repeat) that the sole method
> available for the
> realization or the attainment of such an elevated state of
> knowledge and power is alone attained through the practice of
> benevolence and compassion -- which is epitomized
> as UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD. It avers that the ultimate powers of
> the Universe and of Nature can only be entrusted to those who
are
> totally harmless to others, to themselves and are in effect,
> cosmocratores, "builders" and supporters of Nature' purposes.
>
> In other words unselfishness and service to others are the sole
> avenues whereby personal selfishness and the greed for personal
> power can be eliminated. It helps of course, enormously, if
one
> starts out with the concept that WE (the REAL MAN) are truly
> IMMORTAL, and that the SPIRIT/SOUL within, is an eternal. But
> this
> is a difficult concept for the brain-mind of our physical
> embodiment to grasp and then to rely on.
>
> To be of help I trust you are familiar with the KEY TO
THEOSOPHY
> (BY HPB) it is available through BLAVATSKY.NET on line, and
is
> a good basic treatise to be familiar with.
>
> It is the view of Theosophy that the Universe and Nature
> represent the life-supportive powers and forces that enable all
> humans, MAN included, to exist physically, emotionally,
mentally
> and
> SPIRITUALLY. It considers these principles to be universal and
> immutable
> as well as indestructible. The process of reincarnation it
> avers, is that by which these increments of spiritual growth
and
> universality may be garnered.
>
> Consider that the physical body will for all of us eventually
> die. The knowledge and powers we may have accumulated will
> towards that final moment be dissipated if selfish, and will be
> translated into DEVACHAN if spiritual. It is the Devachanic
> memories that form the "food" for meditation in that state as
> they are built into our permanent INDIVIDUALITY ( the REAL and
> ETERNAL EGO).
>
> For there to be a useful and on going relationship there has to
> be a modicum of the same immortality in "man" ( Mind ?) as
> there
> is already existent in the Universe. [ The Universe embraces
> all.]
>
> Philosophically, the body as a physiological limitation, is
more
> of a hindrance than a help. But we can refine it to a point
> where it becomes a willing and docile assistant to the inner
man,
> and itself "grows" in intelligent and consciousness in its many

> units.
>
> Finally, there is no price to be put on wisdom and knowledge,
If
> it is true, it is already free to all who seek it. It is
present
> in the least situation we are in. It has supported our life so
> far, and few of us know much about physiology so as to trace
the
> enormous complexity of the simplest human form. If ever there
> was a Universe in a nut-shell, it is (by analogy) to be seen in
> the cooperation of the disparate units and systems of each of
our
> physiological human or animal forms.
>
> It also draws attention to the wonderful complexity needed and
> the individual intelligence of the least of our cells, to
realize
> how harmonious the great disparity among them is galvanized
into
> an inter-active harmony that permits our intelligence as an
> emotional being and
> a Mind being to coexist with them and to use them pretty much
as
> we choose. It is possible thorough wrong choices or neglect to
> cause disease and premature death to the body cooperative.
>
> But do let me know what you think of this approach.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dallas
>
> ======================
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 5:53 AM
> To: study@blavatsky.net
> Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ?
>
> Dallas and others,
>
> One reason I had suggested incorporating Neuro-cognitive
systems
> into the matrix, is to review the engram throughout the time
> track
> (recorded periods of pain and unconsciousness (i.e. past death,
> births, prenatal
> events, severe trauma etc) including their processing. Some
> believe that
> they should be left alone or left to the masters, while others
> place
> considerable emphasis in processing them to restore self
> determinism and
> personal freedom. while working in the lower worlds.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
> To: <study@blavatsky.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:18 PM
> Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ?
>
>
> > Saturday, September 01, 2001
> >
> >
> > Dear Friends:
> >
> > Amnesia in reincarnation is explained in Theosophy by the
> > separation after death of all the impresses left in memory on
> the
> > skandhas (little-lives) which, in the period of Kama-loka are
> > reviewed by the IMMORTAL EGO ( ATMA-BUDDHI-HIGHER MANAS)
> > immediately after physical death ( period a few hours to a
few
> > weeks ) and separated into two categories.
>
> CUT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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