Theos-Talk Archives (August 2001 Message tt00194)

In a message dated 08/20/01 8:52:08 PM, eldon@theosophy.com writes:

>At 06:48 PM 8/18/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>By what mechanism does the soul leave Devachan and
>>re-enter the physical body? When is it decided that
>>this occurs?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Mic
>
>After the death of the physical body, the remaining
>life energies take time to dissipate themselves.
>The desires of an animal nature burn themselves off
>first, followed by subtler and more abstract longings.
>The last to go are the highest, the most lofty of
>thought, the most spiritual in nature. It is only
>when we're fully freed of all attachment to our
>former life that we're ready to return and start
>anew.
>
>This process of letting go is entirely subjective,
>and happens as we deal with the contents of our
>own desire nature, thought life, and unspent
>spiritual energies. It's like going to a week-long
>Zen retreat. The first experience may be a discomfort
>of giving up physical activity. Then we peel off
>various layers of wanting to do things. Then come
>various stages of letting go of wanting to think
>about various things, some of which haven't made it
>to the mind's surface in a long time. Finally, we
>can sit in quiet, just happy to be there.
>
>The Devachan is the highest and final stage of our
>typical after-death experiences. When we tire of
>it, when there's no further inner momentum in that
>direction, the desire to taste life again, tanha,
>starts to overtake us, leading us to eventual
>rebirth here on earth again.
>
>While dead, in Kamaloka and then Devachan, we are
>in subjective states. Why is that? It's because our
>evolution is here on physical earth. We're not ready
>for objective existence on another plane. That will
>come in due time when we're progressed further. For
>now, if we exist somewhere while passing through
>our subjective after-death states, it's because,
>I think, we're in an embryonic state on those other
>planes, and have not reached the point where we
>would have independent, sentient, self-conscious
>existence.
>
>How we leave Devachan and take on a new physical
>body are simple in concept, but become difficult
>to understand when we get into too much detail
>about the process. It has not been explained very
>completely. There are many questions that could be
>asked, like how parents are chosen, how an incoming
>soul associates with a particular child, at what
>age and how quickly the soul takes possession of
>the embryo, baby, and child.
>
>The simple answer is tanha. We come back because
>the thirst for life becomes so strong that we
>cannot help ourselves. We just do it. We don't
>have to know how anymore than we need to know
>how to pee, eat food, or breath air. It's just
>a natural mechanism that we unconsciously take
>advantage of.
>
>You might ask whom design that mechanism? Why
>is it the way that it is? That gets back to the
>mysteries of nature, to the laws of the universe,
>to the rules of how life operates. Who makes the
>laws? The law-givers (e.g. Dhyani-Chohans).
>Who are they? What do they do? How do they do
>it? ... You can see that even with a simple
>question, with a little probing every new
>attempt at an answer leaves more unanswered
>questions that before. But that's the wonder of it!

>-- Eldon

The important questions to ask, I would think, would be;
Where is all this (even partially) explained? By whom? And, how can you (or 
anyone else) personally "know" the details with such positive assurance? 
("Vas you dere, Sharlie?" -- as the old Russian radio comedian always 
said.:-) And if so, how can we trust such "subjective" experience -- since, 
as HPB implied, all such experience is often subject to illusion, delusion 
and confusion?

And, since when did the Dhyan Chohans "make" the laws? I always thought, as 
explained (the 2nd Fundamental Principle) in the Proem to the Secret 
Doctrine, that the fundamental laws of cycles and periodicity, which would 
govern both Karma and its derivative action of Tanha, were inherent in the 
nature of the Absolute prior its manifestation -- before any so called Dhyan 
Chohans (as conscious entities) might appear on the scene. If so -- then, 
how would the Dhyan Chohans, be able to do anything to change or "make" those 
laws? They may be the "architects" who initially construct the objective 
Cosmos, but even those would have to obey (as human architects also must) the 
fundamental Laws of Universal (as well as particularized) Nature. 

I believe it's also a teaching of the Vedas that Parabrahm and Brahma, are 
both subject to the fundamental "desire to exist" or Tanha. (I find no 
disagreement with this in theosophy.) How else would they have gotten the 
analogous and corresponding impulse, or Tanha (equivalent to our "tanha") to 
express themselves and "live" in the world of objectivity? Does this not 
also apply to the Dhyan Chohans as well? 

Much food for thought -- huh (which I think all "theosophists" should be 
nourishing their minds on in the privacy of their own inner sanctuary)? 
Maybe, the only one who can answer these profound questions related to 
Devachan and other aspects of the afterlife, is the "Master" within each of 
us. It would help, also, to have a clear understanding of the three 
Fundamental Principles -- as a result of "Self devised and Self determined 
study and effort" -- don't you think? Isn't this the only means to achieve 
"Self realization" -- as the ultimate goal for each theosophist to strive for?

LHM