Theos-Talk Archives (August 2001 Message tt00157)

TUESDAY, AUGUST 14, 2001

Dear Friend:


To give a very brief answer, The length of stay in Kama-Loka
depends on the quality of our personality during this life. If
we are very selfish and self-centered and have not cared much
about others, then the stay in Kama-Loka which is the plane of
passions and desires is likely to be long. It is said that this
may be a few months to a few years in terms of our time.

Alsheimer's disease is a progressive deterioration of the brain
cells which enable us to use the body and which connect the
THINKING ego with his body and specifically with memory, speech,
and action. In effect it returns the control of our
consciousness backward to a period of early childhood when
everything had to be done for us. But as far as I am aware this
has nothing to do with Karma, as the power to choose (which
induces Karma) is diminished.

If you are interested in what Theosophy teaches, then let me add:

Theosophy teaches there are two Egos in man. The state of being
human implies the operation of the Mind as an independent
free-willed chooser. Operating as such we decide our own future.

To those there must be contrast. The duality of the Egos lies in
the fact that one has concentrated all the experience accumulated
in its many incarnations through the "lower kingdoms" (mineral,
vegetable, animal and finally it is no in the human stage).


THE LOWER EGO and its INTELLIGENCE

This is the intelligence mainly of our body and its constituents.
This "lower intelligence includes desire, passion, selfishness,
self-preservation, and even tends to isolate us from others.
This lower intelligence is focused in the "principle" we call
KAMA ( desires and passions) which are always personal. In
terms of its cause for existence we will find it in the karma of
our past lives -- the direction in which we chose to conduct
ourselves when alive using earlier bodies in olden times and
civilizations.


THE HIGHER EGO and its INTUITION (This is the Real Human
Being)

The second is the divine INTELLIGENCE (or CONSCIOUSNESS) that is
a portion (or a "ray" of) from the ONE UNIVERSAL SPIRIT. It is
therefore common to all of us equally. This makes for the basis
of UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD. Associated with our SPIRIT (ATMA) is
the quality of WISDOM (called BUDDHI) -- it is the accumulated
record of all the experiences we have had incarnation after
incarnation in all the many aspects of Nature and covering a
tremendous period of time, for the SPIRITUAL EGO is a MONAD and
is held to be immortal. Intuition and the "Voice of Conscience"
are associated with BUDDHI, and hence they warn us of the dangers
of making wrong choices. [ We have already "been there," and
the record of past suffering serves as an example to issue this
warning to us (the embodied mind) before we CHOOSE.


HALF WAY THROUGH OUR PILGRIMAGE

At this very moment, we could say: We are (as the Real Human,
the Eternal Pilgrim) only half way through our "pilgrimage" Our
WISDOM (Buddhi) we share with all other Monads because truth and
facts are common property. The third part of the composite MONAD
in evolution is the MIND (MANAS). This gives us our sense of
being a SELF-CONSCIOUS INDIVIDUAL.

In our present incarnation we have our "embodied Mind," or, that
aspect of MANAS which links with the KAMA principle and therefore
is called the "selfish mind" (or KAMA-MANAS) The Divine Mind is
BUDDHI-MANAS (the Wise Mind).


KAMA-LOKA FOLLOWS PHYSICAL DEATH

When the body "dies" all the memories of the life rush through
the physical brain and are stored in the "astral brain.. The
person now enters the state of "Kama-Loka" and there a kind of
second death ensues as the two varieties of desires, passions and
emotions are separated. The "lower and personal" coalesce with
the "astral body" and this begins to dissipate as soon as the
Real Individual ( The Permanent Ego) leaves for the state of
Devachan. As said above the time spent in this Kama-Loka state
is a few months to several years.


DEVACHAN FOR THE HIGHER EGO FOLLOWS KAMA-LOKA

Devachan is the third state and in that the Real Ego reviews and
embodies in its character and capacities all the noble and
altruistic feeling, thoughts, deeds and impulses it generated
during the life that has just closed. This takes a long time and
may last from a few centuries to several millennia, the average
being about 1,500 years. Nothing is "lost" and therefore the
minute consideration of these memories occupies a long time
indeed.

Considering these basic facts the problem of how soon the
"kama-rupa" dissolves on the astral plane after physical death
becomes relatively easy. It is the result of how we have lived
our lives and the choices we have made. If we have been selfish
and unjust then we have built a strong set of "little-lives"
(skandhas) that relate to the lower qualities of life:
selfishness, isolation, and some of the vices that we know of.

If we have been unselfish, generous, and have tried to apply
general and universal principles impartially, (behaved like a
true brother or sister to all others) then the stock of our
"spiritual" skandhas has been raised.

A large stock of the lower skandhas keeps the Ego after death in
"Kama-Loka" (the "plane of Desires") . A large stock of the
"higher" skandhas keeps the Ego in "DEVACHAN" for a longer
period.

In the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) describes this condition on pages
190-192. This is available for reference on line through
BLAVATSKY.NET

I hope this will be of help.

I would add that in The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY - BY Mr. Judge he
devotes several chapters to explaining this phenomena ( Chapters
12, and 13 ). As a preliminary he explains the nature of man and
his mission (Chapters 4 to 10). This is also available through
BLAVATSKY.NET .

Dallas.


=================================



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Smart [mailto:smartja38@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 12:45 AM
To: basic@blavatsky.net
Subject: [bn-basic] Re: The after death state

AnaMaria,

This may or may not help. I've heard it said that those
people who have
Alzheimer's disease, or who have had strokes and are not coherent
may be
going through the same death process, but at a slower, less
stressful rate
for them. Maybe this is so. If so, I think it really depends on
the
individual as to how long the process or processes take.
Take care and be good.

J Smart


>From: "Veyler Hildebrand" <vhildebx@ucla.edu>
>Reply-To: basic@blavatsky.net
>To: basic@blavatsky.net
>Subject: [bn-basic] The after death state
>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:17:56 -0700
>
>I've been away recently and am not sure if you're still talking
about the
>after death states, but I would like to ask if someone out there
knows just
>how much "time" is involved in the complete detachment of the
astral body
>from the physical body at the time of death. The course
syllabus mentions
>that at the time of physical death the "real" man is busy in the
brain
>receiving the impressions of the previous life and that not
until this
>process is completed is the person gone. Does this take
seconds, minutes,
>hours or days? Can the process begin before actual death if it
is not
>accidental or sudden? If the physical body is completely
destroyed at the
>time of physical death would it affect the process differently?
Would
>cremation or burial effect this in any way? I've noticed that
some
>cultures
>have longer waiting periods than others with regard to disposal
of human
>physical remains....any comments? Please excuse the nature of
these (what
>most people would call) morbid questions but this has been a
subject of
>fascination since my childhood and I assure you that I'm not
obsessed.
>
>Your enlightenment would be much appreciated......AnaMaria
>
>---
>Current topic is at
>http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnbasic/basicSyllabus.htm
>You are currently subscribed to bn-basic as:
[smartja38@hotmail.com]
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>leave-bn-basic-6660818H@lists.lyris.net


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