Theos-Talk Archives (August 2001 Message tt00134)

Daniel,

Based on what you said to me a few months ago in
this short excerpt:

=====================
"I certainly would like to see such a "united team".
I will send your original article to some of my
correspondents who are also interested in this."
=====================

...hopefully you, and everyone else, besides
endlessly discussing history, will also begin
to put some constructive energy into helping
our Theosophical Movement to "UNITE" in some
sort of wise, friendly, and effective way.

With that in mind, and just so that it is all in
one posting, as REFERENCE MATERIAL for everyone,
and because I really have nothng more to offer at
this time, a collation of my various remarks,
presented in four sections, from different postings
about my proposed "United [Theosophical] Team Action",
offered as my contribution to our Movement, and
simply as "starting ideas", are found below.

The only thing I want to add to this reference
material is the following question: Is it possible
that our present few generations of Theosophical
student-teachers and writers, who are on the
scene, are not even capable of dialoguing with
humanity at the highest levels of science,
religion, philosophy, and social problems, IF,
by some chance, "Humanity would come-a-calling"
and actually INVITE our proposed "United Team Action"
into the dialogue, as I speak of it in so many ways
below and in the introductions on my WisdomWorld.org
web site? (I only ask it and say it this way because
I don't actually know, one way or the other, but
surely hope our Movement is capable.) Keep this
rough question and idea in mind whenever reading
or reviewing any portion of the collated material
from my attempt to offer my food-for-thought
starting-ideas for skilled, capable, and
knowledgeable people in our Movement to consider.

Note: There may be some material in these
collations, in the four lower sections, that
those who saw and read some of the early material
haven't seen yet.

Fraternally,

John DeSantis
(Compiler)
-------

=====================
My "United Team Action" collation begins.
This 1st one went to 3 forums: theos-talk,
theos-l (Theosophy Study List), and bn-study --
on July 9, 2001:
=====================

=====================
Subject: A "UNITED ACTION" FOR OUR THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT

=====================
PRELIMINARY NOTE: This letter is based on
a message that I recently E-mailed to 31
Theosophists, privately (on June 18th).
I have edited, re-written, and shortened
it a great deal for this public forum, as
well as taking out all of their names and
e-mail addresses.
=====================

It is a message that I think ties in nicely with,
and should add to, the conversation going on
(presently on bn-study) about a "United"
Theosophical Movement.

It is aimed at all dedicated, knowledgeable, and
skilled Theosophists, worldwide.

It is kind of like an an "Open Letter" presenting,
for consideration, a proposal for the building of
a "UNITED TEAM" action within the worldwide
"THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT".

I must admit, and I want it to be very clear, that
I'm just a Theosophical "generalist", and am not
much on details the way many Theosophists are. I'm
just a not-so-skilled or scholarly Theosophist who
happens to, overall, in general, recognize what
Theosophy truly is, have a large vision for our
Movement, which I'm weak in skillfully presenting,
as this letter clearly shows. But I have written
it in the hopes of inspiring other wise and skilled
Theosophists to maybe come together and do something
like I have long envisioned for our somewhat broken
and somewhat unfriendly Theosophical groups --
especially all of the Theosophists from the
different organizations (as well as those from
none) who now publish, and all those who write
for, the many different publications, both
printed and on-line.

In trying to set the stage a little, here are
some of my thoughts about this:

First let me say that it has been and is my mission,
as my introductions on the WisdomWorld.org web site
clearly show, to try and "Unite" Theosophists from
all of the organizations to work (and write) together
in reaching out to humanity, irregardless of what
went on in the past. With the over 1,100 articles
that I have so far placed on the site, I try to
make sure that all readers, especially newcomers,
have a chance to check out a large sample of the
high caliber of Theosophy which has been presented
by THEOSOPHY magazine for the last 89 years -- which
clearly shows their mission and style of pointing
to the original teachers, HPB and WQJ. -- and that
they will be part of this "United" team action.

I am mostly concerned with present-day humanity,
besides having access to the original literature,
always having access to, whether it happens now
or in the near or far away future, a "Team" of
present-day "United" Theosophists who can very
wisely, knowledgeably, and skillfully interact
with humanity on every important subject under
the sun.

A great deal of what I have always aspired this
"United Team" project to eventually be, how it
might interact with humanity, etc., etc., is found
in the right-hand column of the "Main Page" of my
web site, and continues on another page via a link
at the bottom of what is said there. After you
finish reading this letter, please carefully read
those "Introductions" to the WisdomWorld.org site
in order to see how I speak to humanity about this;
the links to them are found at the end of this
letter. There are many paragraphs on both pages
that speak in some way to humanity about this
proposed "United Team". Even though my writing in
the Introductions is done in a very amateurish way,
I am sure it is at least clear enough to paint a
good enough starting picture for everyone to
think about.

I feel if this kind of coming together is not done
by wise and knowledgeable Theosophists, from all
organizations, and from none, in close association,
of course, with the "ORIGINAL" Theosophical
literature, and our Movement stays fractured,
and endlessly arguing and fighting over what went
on way back when (even though all this history has
its place), we are unwisely doing the wrong thing,
overall, in general, to the worldwide fraternity
of Adepts, to their direct agents, HPB and WQJ,
and to humanity as a whole.

I humbly suggest that our worldwide Theosophical
Movement should try and pull together a "United Team",
one that presents endless writings dealing with all
that affects humanity today, and on into the future,
in a new publication, whatever it may be named, and
even if just on the web, for starters. And that every
web site within the Theosophical arena should put a
link to this same one site, on their own sites. Even
though each group continues doing whatever it does,
in whatever publications, and in whatever ways,
the same as now, if each also had a link to this
"United" publication, we may, as a Movement, begin
to do better among ourselves and in catching the
attention of humanity, and hopefully, the attention
of the Adepts themselves, to a point, after a while,
where they might even begin to be impressed enough
with our "United" action to send in articles and
series of articles, because we are finally working
together, in the way they probably hope we would
and should.

Should this new publication be like any existing
Theosophical publications, either those in print
or on-line? To this I have to say, NO, I don't
think so, as will be explained further on.

I look forward to the day when something like this
for our Movement comes together in a definite way,
and I am able to then change what I say on those
two introductory pages of my web site, so that it
then fits whatever is created by a "United Team"
of wise and skilled Theosophists -- and is written
in a much better way (or everything pertaining to
the "Team" is even deleted, if that is then best)
-- Hopefully with the help and/or suggestions
of the "Team", so that I don't embarrass it with
my amateur writing in my Introductions on the
WisdomWorld.org web site.

I'm offering a few starting-ideas here based on
everything that I have posted above and in the
Introduction on the "Main Page" of my web site,
which, as said, continues in the "Introductory
Brochure" page of the site, concerning this
proposed "United Team" action. Those Introductions
will make clearer these suggestions and proposals
-- especially because so much is said in them
(to humanity) concerning the "United Team" proposal.
I have woven the subject throughout the Introductions
and Final Comments on the web site. By the way, for
those of you who have read the "Introductory Brochure"
page in the past, I want you to know that I have
extensively edited and re-wrote it on June 14, 2001,
trying hard to improve it.

So with the stage set a little for everyone who
reads this:

I suggest that endless topics should be written about,
topics dealing with subjects like social problems of
every kind, education, health, science, religion,
philosophy, history, etc. and so on; topics that will
be constantly presented in series of articles as well
as stand-alone articles; even in different categories
of groupings of articles; and steadily, so as to
always be current and up to date with evolving events
-- being always contemporary. I suggest, simply as
reference material, reviewing the style of some of
the series of articles presented on the WisdomWorld.org
site as examples and samples, for starters. The bottom
line is that it should be an endless ongoing project,
dealing with the day to day, week to week, year to
year experiences of humanity; meaning, for example,
that some series (or groupings) of articles, on many
subjects, should never actually have an ending point,
as they steadily comment, in the Light of Theosophy,
on scientific directions taken and progress in every
field, as well as on humanity's many social problems.

I also suggest that we strongly consider having a
skilled and professional Media and Press section
for our "Movement's" "United Team" action, so that
it can regularly communicate with the print and
online publications in the world, in a way that
is accepted as routine, like, for example, an
AP (Associated Press), a Reuters, etc., and little
by little aim to also secure, because becoming
respected and in-demand, in every important field,
including the NEWS arena, invitations to have
either daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, or once
in a while column space in many publications,
both print and electronic.

I suggest, for consideration, that all articles
are always contemporary, fresh, and originally
written by our Movement's proposed new group, and
ONLY referring to, when it does actually refer to
past teachers and writers, HPB, WQJ, and the Adepts.
Why? So as not to naturally open the lower-nature
door of any one associated with the new "United Team",
or any organization that our "United Team" members
belong to; so that no one feels in any way slighted
or disturbed or angry or jealous, etc. This would be
a wise strategic move and method on our part, so that
we CAN MORE EASILY create an atmosphere where we can
work together and leave all past problems behind. We
would also strategically leave behind, in this new
publication at least, any problems for our Movement
that past workers and leaders may have made; by this
I mean with any distortions of the Teaching, as well
as with personality problems, backstabbing, jockeying
for power and position, and so on.

Each writer can post and show our new "United" group
each and every proposed article on a new and unique
web site that makes it easy as pie for everyone to
privately collaborate, without using e-mail. Any
article, or any number of articles, can be constantly
worked on, as they are always posted and showing;
and each paragraph in each article has a tiny link
to press on so that any of the members of the "Team"
can suggest a rewrite, add an idea, do some editing,
and so on, until the entire group agrees that the
article is ready to be presented, and is strictly
in line with true and undistorted Theosophy. A fellow
Theosophist first introduced this unique site to us,
which all of us can use, for this writing project
or for any other collaborative work, in one of his
messages to the BN and theos-talk forums. This is
the unique site that is well worth checking out and
knowing about: http://www.quicktopic.com/

Whether or not all articles presented to humanity
by this "United Team" should be either signed by a
particular writer or writers, unsigned, or simply
delivered and presented when finished as a
collaborative effort by all of the writers-editors
(the "United Team") is something that the working
group that may, hopefully, come together needs to
carefully think about.

Before I continue, here are some selected excerpts,
which may help give some more food for thought to
everyone, from a couple of e-mail responses to me
by a fellow Theosophist, which offer some starting
ideas on how to think about and go about this project,
many of which are similar to my own, whether expressed
by me or not. He is a Theosophist whom many of you
know, or know of, as he participates in some of the
on-line forums on Blavatsky Net and theos-talk, as
well as in many scientific forums elsewhere. He is
an old, skilled, and very knowledgeable professional
in the media and publishing worlds, among many
other fields:

=====================
Selected excerpts from his 1st letter:
=====================

John,

... I think ... topics ... dealing with "contemporary
world problems" ... should be the sole purpose of any
new magazine in the field.

In my view the ... Online Magazine ... should publish
only articles that have relevance (from a "Wisdom
Teaching" [theosophical-solutions] point of view) to
all of the varied problems plaguing the world today
due to what the Buddhists would call, "wrong view"...
(Whether scientific, religious, technological,
governmental, social, philosophical, cultural,
ecological, medical, psychological, judicial,
correctional, commercial, economical, etc., etc.)
Thus, it can attract editorial writers, advisors,
activist-authors, group leaders, etc., with
knowledgeable backgrounds in all fields.

... But ... no dependence on advertisers, and
writers could have much more editorial freedom...
To call a spade a spade, so to speak -- as well as
to advocate radical changes in the way the world
presently works. ... I like the idea of a
(r)evolutionary approach that pulls no punches,
and can work toward upsetting the apple carts of
the greed merchants, as well as awaken the world
to the emancipating power of sound theosophical
thinking in practical application. ...

... for starters -- roughly to frame out an
editorial goal and author's style ... Articles
might be contributed by anyone who not only
has a sound understanding and knowledge of the
theosophical principles, but can make a good case
for applying such knowledge, as well as promulgating
it (using the common "language of this age") --
within the framework of the actual world conditions
that exist today -- with the consideration that
such conditions could be changed and problems solved
through application of theosophical thought and
unified action.

These articles should be understandable by everyone,
regardless of their educational level, and should
clearly define the problem(s) and the solution(s),
as well as give a reasonable and possibly inspiring
rationale for each solution based on the fundamental
laws and principles of theosophy...

The goal of the magazine should be to publish such
articles for purposes of helping all of humanity
understand the fundamental truths and, ultimately
be able to create for themselves a better,
and happier world -- free of oppression and
discrimination, and based on the principles of
altruism and universal brotherhood -- leading
(among other positive goals?) to unity in diversity,
liberty with responsibility, and self government
"of the people, by the people, and for the people,"
etc., etc.

... it needs some more thought and bouncing around
organizational and operational plans ... I would
be glad to work on developing it ... and give
whatever assistance I can after the start-up.

... use the Quick Topic [http://www.quicktopic.com/]
site to work in conjunction with the magazine -- for
editorial discussion and work group gathering and
planning purposes.

=====================
Selected excerpts from his 2nd letter:
=====================

... doesn't yet have a definitive editorial policy,
format, or managing editor, publisher and production
manager. ... these projects, if they are to work,
would have to have a strong leadership and a very
positive course of action as well as an organization
plan. For instance, the magazine would need a
Publisher/Editor who can hand out assignments,
supervise and manage the editing (even if done by
online collaboration and consensus), handle the
formatting, layout and rewriting, if necessary,
and also manage the website and the posting. ...
and I don't know who is going to take the reins
and act as a strong leader. My take is that unless
there is such a leader with great enthusiasm for
the "United Team" idea, plus the magazine and other
projects it will work on, as well as the time and
skill to organize and manage it all -- it could
have very little chance of getting off the ground.
... I think it is worth a try to ... find someone
to take over and run with your idea. (And that
could include concise and complete planning,
designing, packaging, proposing, presenting,
recruiting, and managing.)

==============
End of his selected excerpts.
==============

To continue: I suggest that there should never be
a deadline for the presentation of any article or
series of articles that will be added to this new
on-line publication, or any size, or page-number,
or length-of-articles limitations. No such pressures
of any kind: just calmly and coolly working together
to get each article up to speed, so to say, that all
agree is absolutely in line with the Teachings --
putting each new article up, in whatever section,
or series, or grouping on the new web site that
it belongs in (the web site would actually be the
publication, as far as I see it, for starters); and
then the skilled "Media & Press" team announcing it
to the world's media, or selected portions of it,
according to the particular subject covered.

If a working "Team" begins to come together and
decides to have a new and separate neutral web
site (within and representing our entire worldwide
Theosophical Movement), which I personally think
is the best way to go, for the reasons given
earlier, I volunteer to pay the initial fee, and
then each yearly fee for the new web site name
that is decided upon, as well as the initial
start-up fees and then the ongoing monthly fee
for the Host provider where the site will be
technically located. But I strategically bow out
of having anything to do with creating the new web
site and the new magazine and action, or whatever
else is put together by a wise group, based on
these raw starting ideas, other than always being
a part of it by offering comments and suggestions,
whenever they occur to me, and helping to proofread
articles for the team, when needed. Why? Because
I definitely am NOT, in any way, shape, or form,
based on long-lived first-hand experience, a capable
organizer, writer, or web-site-operating person.

Based on our sorry history over the last 125 years,
as a very fragmented Theosophical Movement, I suggest
that if we are to overcome this, and all that it has
done to present Theosophy in a poor light before the
world, even making it a laughingstock to some degree,
that the wisest and most knowledgeable Theosophists
from all organizations, and from none, should very
skillfully find a way to come together to present
to humanity, on an ongoing basis, the highest and
profoundest caliber of Theosophy that is possible
-- and always pointing out any and all Theosophy
that is to some degree distorted and/or not valid,
whenever necessary and possible.

Some very important things for everyone to consider,
while pondering over this rough proposal in the
days, weeks, months, and years to come: If humanity
would open-mindedly come-a-calling, so to say, at
the highest levels of science, religion, philosophy,
and education, as well as the media in general,
worldwide, inviting our Theosophical participation
in endless ways on endless subjects, is the condition
of our Theosophical Movement, from the point of view
of, "If the Student is Ready (humanity as a whole)
the Teacher will Appear", presently ready to put our
best foot forward in a "UNITED" way, and actually
win the day in the eyes of a watching world? Would
each of us, who come from different organizations,
with their various publications, web sites, on-line
forums, activities and projects, etc., etc., be
satisfied if any particular one, and not our own,
spoke for Theosophy and the Theosophical Movement?
I could be dead wrong, but I suspect not, on both
questions. But if we together, for starters, create
a "neutral" web site, from the point of view of
everyone in our Movement, which IS, or contains,
a publication that is made up of wise and skilled
and dedicated theosophists, who are members,
associates, and writers from all of them, as well
as all those wise and skillful writers who are
members of none, which might eventually, if we do
this right, also include some Adepts, then the
climate would be completely different for each of
us individually, as well as for our Movement as
a whole. We would be operating in a very friendly
"United Team" atmosphere where we are able to put
out the wisest, profoundest, truest, and best
Theosophy at all times -- and in a collaborative
way, to make sure of this, while drawing ourselves,
little by little, ever closer together into a
Theosophical "nucleus" of brotherhood founded,
even if only for starters, on a skillful and
effective MOVEMENT-wide working relationship.

OK, this should now be enough additional
starting-ideas and information for everyone
to have absorbed, so as to coordinate with what
has been presented on my WisdomWorld.org web site
for a long time now (in the first 3 links that
are found below), concerning the "United Action"
proposal in the "Introductions".

Hopefully I have offered enough starting-ideas
so that a dialogue between many individuals and
groups of theosophists who see this letter can
now begin and maybe, hopefully, a large and steady
"United Team Action" will begin to build and grow
for our eternal Theosophical Movement.

Fraternally yours in Universal Brotherhood,

John DeSantis
(Compiler)
-------

This is the link to the "Main Page" of my web site,
and the Introduction:
http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html

This is the link to the continuation of the above
"Main Page". It is entitled the "Introductory Brochure":
http://www.wisdomworld.org/intro.html

This is the link to my "Final Comments" that follow
the 166 compiled articles in the Introductory,
"Volume 1--> Setting the Stage" book:
http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/conclusion.html

-------

...and here are:

The Index page of the Introductory,
"Setting the Stage" book:
http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html

The page where "Additional" articles are
steadily being added:
http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html
=====================

=====================
This 2nd one also went to 3 forums: theos-talk,
theos-l (Theosophy Study List), and bn-study --
on July 13, 2001:
=====================

=====================
Subject: "THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS"

In sincerely trying to present a "starting-idea"
plan of action to "Unite" us (in the copy of it
below this short note), I now feel that I have
opened doors that may even divide us further, and
keep thinking of my action as related to the above
quote in the heading. Not being qualified to offer
much more, I leave it to others to consider discussing
coming together in some way as the picture painted in
the rough proposal and suggestions, or not. I want to
spend most of my time and energy on what I consider
a Theosophical Project, one that I had a vision of
myself, trying to help humanity with this economic
project that I feel is very important:
http://www.PublicAndPrivateEnterprise.org/
On July 21st I will be sending out 205 1-page letters
to all of the nations in the world via their Missions
to the United Nations in New York City, and to 11
major media outlets, for starters. When I actually
mail the letters on the 21st, I will then activate
a link on my economic web site to a copy of it.
I will, whenever I have the time and energy, also
continue to add more articles to the WisdomWorld.org
web site. Please do not be insulted with any messages
aimed my way that I do not respond to. Finally: The
only thing that I want to add to the below message
at this time is this idea: That maybe, just maybe
our THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT will only have a chance
to come together, and write together, if ALL articles
are ALWAYS freshly written, and point to NO ONE,
and to the words of NO ONE; and when they do point
to someone, that it is only HPB and the ADEPTS --
since these are the people we surely all have
something in common with, and can rally around.

Fraternally yours in Universal Brotherhood,

John DeSantis
(Compiler)
-------

A "UNITED ACTION" FOR OUR THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT

[NOTE: I cut the rest here, because it is a copy of the
first one that I presented above in this collation.]
=====================

=====================
This 3rd one also went to 3 forums: theos-talk,
theos-l (Theosophy Study List), and bn-study --
on July 15, 2001.

Note: This one is from my response to Jerry Schueler.
In order to stay tightly focused and on subject,
about the "United Team Action" proposal, I have
only posted the items pertaining to that, and cut
out the material about "Karma & Reincarnation":
=====================

Subject: KARMA & REINCARNATION and TRUTH & FALSITY MIX

..To: Jerry Schueler
From: John DeSantis (Compiler)

>>From your last message to me, in the
"Theosophy Study List" forum, entitled

..RE: A United Action - to John DeSantis
Date: Thursday, 12 July 2001 19:49:13 -0400

=====================
.... [I cut all this first part out, and will
start here with me speaking to Jerry:]
=====================

...let me try to address what you have said about
this particular paragraph from my "starting-ideas"
proposal entitled "A 'UNITED ACTION' FOR OUR
THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT":

=====================
I suggest, for consideration, that all articles
are always contemporary, fresh, and originally
written by our Movement's proposed new group, and
ONLY referring to, when it does actually refer to
past teachers and writers, HPB, WQJ, and the Adepts.
Why? So as not to naturally open the lower-nature
door of any one associated with the new "United Team",
or any organization that our "United Team" members
belong to; so that no one feels in any way slighted
or disturbed or angry or jealous, etc. This would
be a wise strategic move and method on our part, so
that we CAN MORE EASILY create an atmosphere where
we can work together and leave all past problems
behind. We would also strategically leave behind,
in this new publication at least, any problems for
our Movement that past workers and leaders may have
made; by this I mean with any distortions of the
Teaching, as well as with personality problems,
backstabbing, jockeying for power and position,
and so on.
=====================

Your response was to both the above excerpt and
this excerpt in a message of mine to you:

=====================
Anyway, I hope our worldwide Theosophical Movement
can slowly come together and rise to the occasion
with a skillful "United Team" effort. For the sake
of humanity, I sure hope you are eventually proven
to be wrong in thinking that it can't be done --
and who is needed to come together, at all times
in the future, but only the "wise and knowledgeable"
from within the Movement, so that they can always
work TOGETHER, in COLLABORATIVE authoring of all
articles? You wouldn't want a dummy like me to be
part of the "Team" effort that would constantly
have a dialogue with the scholars and experts in
the worlds of science, religion, philosophy,
education, and social problems, as well as
every other important subject under the sun,
would you? :-) ;-)
=====================

Jerry, based on the combined above two excerpts, you said:

=====================
To me, and this is just my own opinion here,
I honestly think that the ONLY way a united effort
will ever work is to eliminate ALL contentiousness
and to pull in everyone, including even CWL, (who
even Adyar folks seem to want to ignore) into some
kind of acceptance. My own personal favorites are
Purucker and Long, because their writings have
helped me the most, and these will not be allowed
in your union. I also like some of the psychic work
of CWL and Kuntz which I would put under the spirit
of the 3rd Objective. Also, a small book by Emily
Seelon (The Pilgrim and the Pilgrimage) is one of
my favorite Adyar books in my library. In summary,
there is much good to be found in "neo-Theosophy"
and to throw it all out is at best shortsighted.
When we Theosophists are able to truly forgive
(not necessarily forget) then we should be able
to open our doors to everyone. Until then,
I will wait.
=====================

Jerry, please remember that I clearly presented
my "United" proposal only as "starting-ideas" for
everyone to consider, just a starting point, with
nothing carved in stone; from a person not even
qualified to be a writer on the team (myself). So
before I continue, and based on what you said above,
the only thing that I want to add to the "A 'UNITED
ACTION' FOR OUR THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT" message at
this time is this idea, which I already presented
in my recent message entitled "THE ROAD TO HELL IS
PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS": "That maybe, just maybe
our THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT will only have a chance
to come together, and write together, if ALL
articles are ALWAYS freshly written, and point to
NO ONE, and to the words of NO ONE; and when they
do point to someone, that it is only HPB and the
ADEPTS -- since these are the people we surely all
have something in common with, and can rally around."

With that said, my response, offered as food for
thought to consider, to what you said in the above
excerpt, about the "United Team" having an ongoing
dialogue with the best minds and scholars, and
experts, and scientists within humanity, and freely
quoting from everyone, like Beasnt, Tingley,
Leadbeater, Purucker, and on and on with all past
workers and leaders, is this:

But let me first say that I am about to speak only
of the general idea about Theosophical ideas and
concepts being presented by a skilled "United Team"
who also freely point to people, and quote from them,
who have spoken and written in their Theosophical
careers in the three forms of Truth, Falsity and
Mistaken notions -- in other words, and used simply
to make my point, I am only assuming that all of the
people you mentioned, and others, have presented at
various times in their Theosophical careers ideas
in all three of the ways. Only other students
much more knowledgeable than me can point out
any specific cases.

Its obvious, based on all of our different opinions,
different Theosophical organizations that we have
each come up through, the different leaders of them
all, the different workers and writers that we each
have read and have an affinity with, and with all of
the past problems that were created and experienced
from before our time, that we must, all together,
work real hard to figure out a way to overcome all
this so that we can have a real chance to create
a "United Theosophical Movement" -- one that can
skillfully dialogue with humanity at the highest
levels. The past is the past, and the many problems
based on that past, which we can each probably find
things to bolster our many opinions, arguments, and
feelings, likes and dislikes, in a thousand ways,
based on the actions and the writings of so many
people and publications all through the years, what
can we begin to do now so that in the future we can
be effective as a "United Team" that meets humanity
with the highest caliber of Theosophical truths?

Here are some raw "starting ideas" to consider,
presented in no particular order; thoughts that
I have about our proposed "United Team", on the
subject of their drawing quotes from all the past
and present workers and writers in our Movement,
other than just speaking of them and drawing from
them when writing from strictly an historical point
of view -- when pointing out the good, the bad, the
ugly, along with the truths, the falsities, and the
mistaken notions:

Can our Movement be truly effective if a "United Team"
is put together that draws from the writings from
people who have written things during their
Theosophical careers that, on a regular basis,
come out of a mixed bag, so to say -- sometimes
true, sometimes mistaken to some degree, and
sometimes straightout false? For instance: If a
united writing team, and their web site and
publication, IS formed, would it be wise for them
to ever quote from a person in our past, on something
that the particular Theosophist they quote from wrote
or said that was true, from a Theosophical point of
view, and no matter how much good stuff he or she
put out, that inspired and helped many students,
if the skilled scientists, and scholars, and experts
in the world, can point to plenty of things that the
same Theosophical writer or worker or leader in the
past wrote or said, that is easily proved to be
false or mistaken, even among the wisest of
Theosophists, from the top down? What would that
do for our Movement? How would we be ripped apart
and embarrassed by the experts? Would this be a
wise strategy for our United Team? Etc., etc.

With the above food for thought questions and ideas
to consider, without me having to write them all
again, what about if a Theosophical teacher or
writer or worker, who was loved and respected and
read by many students, and who said and wrote many
wonderful things that were truly in line with the
teachings, along with, as above, other things that
were not and can be proven to be distortions, like
any of us might do who have been more or less
serious theosophical students for a while, was
also exposed as a sexual pervert in some ways, in
the eyes of most of humanity, and the scholars and
experts also pointed out both the unsound concepts
and ideas along with the character flaws. How would
our "United Theosophical Team" be able to overcome
this in dialoguing with the experts in all fields?

What about also featuring, no matter how talented
in many ways, the writings and teachings from
leaders and writers who in the end turned on HPB
in some way, as well as their putting out a
combination of true, false and mistaken theosophical
concepts? How does our United Team overcome the use
this would be put to by the skilled scholars and
experts in science, religions, and philosophy that
they are conversing with in front of humanity?

What about any of our past leaders and writers who
may have presented someone to the Theosophical
Movement, and to the world, as the next Messiah,
so to say? What would that do for our "United Team",
when their critics and opponents latch onto that
and use it, after the Team quoted some reasonable,
good, and even true Theosophical concepts that the
person or persons in Theosophical history wrote?

If ideas rule the world, and we are interested in
putting forth the pure and reliable Theosophy
presented by HPB and the Adepts, that can stand
the test and the heat of battle in the "ideas"
and "truth" arenas, but instead we also put forth
the writings and ideas of everyone else, much of
which maybe cannot take the heat of this battle
of ideas, concepts, and so on, how can we ever
hope to win the day?

I will stop adding more to the above, even though
I and probably everyone else could continue to add
to the above few starting-ideas to the basic point
I am trying to make.

Jerry, in my heart, I, too, like you and so many
others from our different organizations, would love
to see everyone included, as far as who and what
the "United Team" would use as ammunition to draw
from in their task of presenting Theosophical
concepts in every possible way in all fields.
But would it be wise to include the writings from
everyone in this endeavor -- especially if plenty
of what they wrote and said, along with the good
stuff, maybe couldn't stand the test? Would we have
a chance to build a "United Team Action" that can
win the day, and keep winning it, so as to become
respected worldwide, no matter what the subject
being spoken of is?

To try and conclude: The above things are probably
only a small fraction of the things that our Movement
has to deal with in order to figure out the best
and wisest and smartest way to go. Pleas remember
that I only offer "starting-ideas", as I say over
and over again in my "United Team Action" proposals
and suggestions and aspirations. Hopefully you and
many others will add to the many things we have
to consider.

Am I dead wrong in thinking that we will have the
best chance to include everyone on this team that
is capable, from all organizations, no matter who
they read and learned from, because they will want
to be associated with the team effort, if we
strategically, out of wise necessity, only stick
with the teachings as presented by the Adepts, HPB,
and WQJ (or just the Adepts and HPB), when our
"United Team" does point to the ideas and words
and writings of others, when not strictly
presenting, fresh and new, what they
composed themselves?

To try and summarize all that is above, let me ask
this: Can truth, falsity, and mistaken notions, all
combined in what each of our many past writers have
ever presented, if that be the case, ever actually
have a chance to win the day if this is what our
"United Team Action", as I have proposed, must draw
from, exposing their action to their critics and
skilled opponents in the world of ideas, in order
to satisfy each of our lower natures, whenever
they are not simply writing fresh stuff, which,
hopefully, would be most of the time?

To conclude: It is my opinion, and only my opinion,
that no matter how much great and important work
and loving service for humanity, and for our
Theosophical Movement, any of our fellow workers
and leaders in the various Theosophical
organizations did in their careers, in the past,
and even in the present, if they have said and
written many things concerning Theosophical
realities, ideas, concepts, and doctrines, which
are NOT True, but are false and/or mistaken, then
it would be wise for our proposed "United Team"
to NOT point to them or quote from them, except
when actually pointing our their false and/or
mistaken notions infront of the whole
watching world.

Hopefully you and many others will offer their
views for all of us to consider.

Fraternally yours in Universal Brotherhood,

John DeSantis
(Compiler)
-------

You may find a great deal of the Truth that you
are searching for here:

Wisdom World web site (Main Page):
http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html

The Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book:
http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html

The page where "Additional" articles are steadily being added:
http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html

-------

=====================
These last few pieces, in this 4th item, were my
responses to some questions to me on the private
collaboration page, which questions were asked
after just the first of the four sections that
I have collated and presented in this e-mail:
=====================

I surely didn't and don't propose or see another
"organization" of any kind -- even though it
probably needs some kind of a working team structure,
of course, as Leon Maurer spoke of, in the excerpts
that I provided, I only see it as a warm and friendly
"team" action, with any articles written having
to speak for themselves as being worthy to the
whole watching and commenting and collaborating
"United Team" -- or not; a team of Theosophists
from all organizations, and none (such as yourself),
working together to help bring each article up to
speed, so to say, if it even needs to be, as it may
already be there by the person who wrote it and
submitted it to everyone for comments and suggestions.

As far as being some kind of a duplicate action,
I do not see, as far as I know, the particular type
of "United" publishing action, that I have proposed
and suggested, now going on in our worldwide
Theosophical Movement -- in any way, shape, or form.

There is no "organization" other than a new kind of
a "United Team" action proposed. I am only offering
a project that students and teachers from all
organizations, and from none, can play a part in,
after they figure out how to go about it, if they
even want to -- or be ignored by individuals or
even by everyone.

The "United Team" Action is proposed so that good
and strong writings are able to be developed,
assisted, improved, and approved by the group in
some way, for presentation to humanity in the way
described (which are only starting-ideas).

In this proposed "United Team" action associates
from all organizations, and none, can begin to
work together with the least amount of organization
and the most amount of friendly and helpful
"United Action".

The particular "United" and ongoing publishing
action that is proposed, to be undertaken by
skilled and knowledgeable Theosophists, is a
whole lot different than the fine BN and other
study groups.

I envision a leaderless (from an official and
organizational point of view) but naturally helpful
and skillful "United Action" possibly developing,
with lots of group leaders and even lots of
co-leaders rising to the surface simply in a
natural way, and welcomed as so by the others
for their helpful and skillful natural leadership.

Whether the starting-idea, as presented, is useful
or not, liked or not, at this point in time, I think
I have offered enough ideas, in the "open letter"
and on my web site, to at least be more than
understandable as to what it is all about. In
the final analysis it will only take one or more
people who DO see it as strategically useful, who
decide that they want to do it, and who have the
skills and know-how, who get it all going for our
Movement. So whether it begins to happen now, a
little later in time, or way, way off in the future,
my mission is accomplished, and that was to present
it as best that I am capable of to a group of my
fellow Theosophists. Hopefully you and the others
will at least pass it around, as requested, so
that many more people in our Movement at least
get to know about it.

As far as those of us without good computer skills
goes, that will not in any way stop any of us from
commenting on new articles, making suggestions, and
so on, when and if an action begins, since, as
suggested, each new article can be posted on
this very easy collaborative site for everyone
who is invited to view and comment on:
http://www.quicktopic.com/

=====================
End of this e-mail
=====================