Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00308)

I guess your ax is still grinding. 
Apparently you haven't read any of Dallas' and my responses to these 
ridiculous and redundant questions and vague innuendoes about ULT and its 
uniquely consensual form of self government. And, if you have -- you 
apparently still haven't the faintest idea about what ULT is all about, or 
what is the meaning of "free and independent self government and individual 
choice" in a theosophical sense. 

To set you straight. 
First; There is no such thing as a "parent body" since every ULT Lodge is a 
free and independently self governed association of individual students 
operating entirely under the guidelines of the ULT Declaration and its 
membership form. See: http://www.ult.org/ 
Second: The choice of what theosophical books might be studied in supplement 
to and in the light of the teachings of HPB and WQJ (as implied in ULT's 
Declaration of its aims, purposes and ends in view) is left solely up to the 
individual members in each Lodge who are capable and desirous of voluntarily 
teaching, guiding or carrying out such theosophical studies. 

As an added observation, anyone who conflates the word "freedom" -- in the 
American Founder's sense of "Liberty" to chose one's own self governed path 
-- with the "freedom" to be economic or cultural slaves under the Hitlerian 
form of Fascism or the Stalinist form of Communism, is apparently speaking 
from the same propagandist point of view as Goebbels himself -- who used just 
the same rhetorical tactics to denigrate free electoral democratic 
governments, and justify his Nazi Party's elitist totalitarian policies. Is 
this your end-in-view with regard to your interrogations and innuendoes about 
ULT? 

To compare Hitler's and Stalin's ideas of so called "freedom" -- at the 
expense of uncounted millions of genocidal deaths and persecutive slave 
labor, justified by the material benefits to their murderers and persecutors 
along with their sycophants and sheep-like populace -- with the 
theosophically based freedom to choose one's own path of study, or choose 
one's own life path, or form of government, is an insult to our intelligence. 

I also think that your use of innuendo with respect to your apparently 
carefully worded snide remarks concerning "the truth about the Jews" (who's 
truth?) was uncalled for, and could possibly label you (in the light of your 
justifications with respect to totalitarian forms of government) in the eyes 
of most open minded people as -- if not an apologist of all forms of 
totalitarian dictatorship -- at least, a closet neo-Nazi, as well as an 
anti-Semitic fellow traveler. 

If such an impression was not intended, I think you owe all "real" 
theosophists in this forum who are "engaged in the true service of Humanity, 
without distinction of race, creed, sex, condition or organization," and 
"belongs to no cult or sect, yet belongs to each and all" -- a sincere 
apology. 

If you can't do that, I suggest you go back to doctoring theosophy in your 
own language to suit your own purposes. I understand Hitler, also, was an 
avid student of the Secret Doctrine. It's easy to see how he intentionally 
misinterpreted it to suit his own ends, and why he massacred all the avowed 
theosophists he could get his hands on, and drove all the rest out of 
Germany. Isn't is obvious also, that -- since most Jewish intellectuals are 
kabbalists, and are, thereby, also theosophists who could have exposed him -- 
this could have been one of the main reasons for his lies about and 
persecutions of the Jews, his burning of the classical philoophical and 
occult books, and his insistence on the "Final Solution" of the Jews' 
worldwide genocidal annihilation? It"s amazing how many Germans uring the 
Third Reich went along with this Nazi party line. Does it still burn some 
Germans that many theosophists, under the ULT banner, have managed to 
maintain and even expand their free and independent study of pure theosophy 
on a worldwide basis -- that, in essence, denies and disproves the 
hypocritical, anti Semitic, and arrogant German "Master Race" mythology that 
Hitler was so fond of, and that many Germans can be easily manipulated (even 
today, I've noticed) to find some agreement with? Talk about "twisted 
thinking." That takes the cake.

LHM 


In a message dated 07/25/01 1:10:40 PM, ringding@blinx.de writes:

>>And take it a little further. Let it study another book about
>>Theosophy, by a Soviet Style "Non-Person", who actually worked with
>>HPB, and HSO, and Annie Besant. What if they decided to study C. W.
>>Leadbeater's OUTLINE OF THEOSOPHY (1915), currently available from 
>>a non-Theosophical publisher?
>>
>>Will that be OK with the parent body?
>
>Dennis, Dallas, Leon, Daniel: Another question:
>If I would like to start a Tingley-loyality Lodge, would the ULT parent
>body charter it?
>It it frequently said that the ULT from its declaration cares not about
>quarrels of theosophical figures (except perhaps to make Robert Crosbie
>seen in good light). So this could be a good test. If ULT does not allow a 
>Lodge loyal to KT then I doubt that the claims are true that the ULT has no
>hierarchy, no one who decides and no one who suppresses anything in
>comparison to the Point Loma model which is frequently defamed as
>dictatorship.
>
>That all leads to the question what freedom really is. I had some talks
>in the last months wiht some East Germany, born and raised under the
>Communists. They tell me how unsatisfied they are now as the old system
>was far better and gave more freedom. They had security. They knew that 
>the state would give them a save job after education, they knew they would
>have a kindergarten place etc. etc. and today there is always fight for
>everything. So the Socialism is real freedom for them.
>
>Also I spoke with right winged/neo-nazi persons who told me that during
>the 12 years under Hitler there was really freedom as they could speak out
>aloud the truth about the Jews and no one was persecuted therefor. Today 
>one is jailed if one criticises Jewish policy in Israel or in Germany. Hitler
>took away 6millions unemployed hungry people, gave them a job and bread. 
>He forced the radio, the volkswagen car and other high technology to make
>his people number 1. For those it was Hitler who gave freedom.
>
>So it seems not so easy to understand anyone when he/she says what freedom
>is. Seems there are many views. Regarding the discourse about the ULT as
>a good model for Theosophists the question arises what does the ULT in its
>declaration and in real life mean by freedom and independent study.
>Frank
>